Courage to Lean In

Men often carry their struggles quietly. In this episode I talk with Filipe Guerreiro who after facing his own demons decided to devote his career to helping others experiencing trauma and personal difficulties. Establishing trust and connection can redefine mateship and change the course of someone’s life. Sometimes finding the courage to start can be a hurdle, however this episode offers real stories, practical insights, and a reminder that no one has to go through hard times alone.

Contact Filipe (Counsellor): 0409 681 543 or filipe@feelheard.au 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Daniel

Filipe, how are you?

Filipe

I'm good, Dan. I'm good. I'm good, thanks. How are you?

Daniel

Mate, I'm very well. Philip, we had an interesting meeting. I was down Bronte Beach in Sydney doing my morning meditation, looking at the beautiful water. And I saw this guy with two chairs and a small table and a little stand at the corner of my eye. And I thought, I just kind of ignored you, to be honest. I don't know what this guy's doing. And then I just saw these guys just sitting down and having a talk to you and moving on. I thought, okay, now I'm curious. So I went over and I sat down next to you and I said, what are you doing? And it opened up a beautiful story. And that's what we're here to discuss, your beautiful story. So Philippe, how did you get to that point where you set up a chair in my beautiful Bronte Beach and what got you to that point in life?

Filipe

Do you have a few hours? Just a side note, Bronte is one of my safe spits in Sydney. I love Bronte. It's been like all of us, like a life journey. I can go a bit of a frame of my life. So I'm born and raised in Portugal. I'm 48 years old. Came to Australia 13 years ago. I've been working in engineering through all my professional life. in the last nine years as a manager on construction sites, mostly big infrastructure projects. At the other day, I was looking, I was reflecting about where this actually journey started. And I'm writing some articles at the moment. And I believe it started nine years ago with my separation with my ex-wife. At the time, I was much less aware than I'm at now about emotions, feelings, how to process them. But actually that was the beginning of the journey. It was a bit of an odd time for me at the time. And then fast forward for 2020, when COVID started, actually, I had some injuries, physical injuries from sports, from work. And then I went to a bit of a dark space at the time on a mental health. And actually COVID itself, it didn't affect me directly. We all did. on a dark space at the time with physical pain. I was not able to deal with pain properly. I don't think we have a wheel, but it was really difficult at the time. So I did some scans and it was kind of difficult for the doctors to diagnose. Back to your question, one of the pivot points at the time, I was in one day junction outside of a clinic, which I just had some some scans and a friend of mine random called me just to catch up, have a bit of a chat. And then he said, Philip, Phil, you need to start meditate. Meditation. I was like, okay. So we had a bit of a chat. He gave me some guidelines. So I started doing meditation on an app, headspace. I believe everyone knows it. It's quite famous around the world. So slowly but surely, the meditation started to be part of my life at the time, 2020. So I did meditation for a few months and then I did a program inside the app to help with pain management, kind of be at ease with pain. And that helped me at the time. So I kept my practice for the following years, for three years. And then in 2022, I would still meditate, but that didn't help me to go really deep on my burnout stress at work. And then looking in perspective now, the problems or the events are not actually a problem. It's how we react to them. And at the time I was chasing perfection, avoiding criticism and having no hobbies. So as you can see, that's a recipe for for disaster.

Daniel

Let me just take you back one space here. When you went through separation, because the point of having a chat to you today for me is I feel that a lot of men have been through what you have been through and have not got to the point that you have got to, and they have quite a difficult life for a very long period of time. I'm wondering through your separations what you were actually feeling at that time when you separated from your wife.

Filipe

At the time I was not aware of how grown apart we were. We grew apart. We were always kind of friends, so we grew apart and it was I was blind to the situation and then we separated. You know, when you are together with someone from us 20 years, you almost shape your soul to theirs. And then I felt like when I separated, my soul was still shaped to the relationship. And I was a bit lost at the time. It took me around one year to realize I was in a need to rebuild myself and to find myself. Now looking at perspective with awareness I have, if you want to give me a message to the men out there, do not avoid the pain. Don't dwell on the pain, but at the same time, don't avoid it. Be comfortable with being discomfort in the pain because that's where we allow ourselves to heal. And don't take me wrong, it's not a straight line. Even now I'm working on myself on that sense. to different circumstances.

Daniel

Okay, these are easy things to say, you know, confront the pain. But for many men that are brought up in Australia, we are taught to be a man, avoid pain, don't cry. Whilst we can say, you know, confront the pain, how do we do that as men? What are some suggestions you can make to help men find a way to confront what they're feeling?

Filipe

Thing to come to my mind is to, there are many groups out there of men's group that men can join and feel safe to share. Many of these groups, the ones I know and I'm part of, you don't actually need to share anything. You can just spend weeks just showing up. Connection, it's one of the things that can help us the most. Another thing, it's exercise. It doesn't matter where you are in your life on your fetus journey. Stop, get body movement. Because the more movement you get, the more chemicals, positive chemicals come to your brain, will come to your brain and you'll feel not only better on a normal sense of it, but you'll feel more with a purpose. Embrace some hobbies that helped me as well at the time. I would advise not chase dating apps, at least not straight away, because That is numbing the problem, not facing it. Yeah, connection in a men's group where everyone can feel safe and have their own face.

Daniel

So I guess, you know, feeling safe in a group like that, there are several things to consider. One of them is potentially that there's no judgment. And I know that, you know, many men stay quiet about how they're feeling because they think they're going to be judged by other people. But I guess in a men's group there is a lot of empathy. Is that a fair statement?

Filipe

You are 100% right then. I'm part of the group that we join every Wednesday and then this morning we have our weekly light exercise and sharing circle and I'm honored to be one of the facilitators of the sharing circle and I do the introduction and I say exactly that there's no we're not gonna give you advice we're not gonna judge we are all on the same path called life and we have cases of guys that join for that that particular reason for divorce and struggle relationship and they find a new a new brotherhoods a new community and it's very of course we have a bit of a banner of course a bit of a joke on the sides but we have also space to have deep conversations and there is no judgment you can rock up share a story, walk away, and that's it. So simple but affectable recipe.

Daniel

Yeah. So an opportunity to talk about what is affecting you as a man at this point in your life, whether it's family or work or relationship or anything else that's troubling you.

Filipe

Exactly. And also share milestones, right? Because it's important for us to share the milestones in our life because we tend to dwell on the negative and our brain are wired to kind of jump to the next thing when we achieve a goal. And then you can be there, you exercise, have your coffee, go for a swim and go home. And then next week you feel like, okay, I'm ready to share. That's the beauty of these community groups.

Daniel

Yeah. Do you have an example of anyone that joined the group that needed support and has changed in some way that's positive?

Filipe

Yeah, I remember one guy, of course, I'm not going to tell his name, but he joined us a few months ago because he had a bit of a rough event on his life. He got divorced, he had some financial issues, he lost his job. It was all within weeks and now I believe five months after is he found a new job. You can see on his face he got a bit of a blood back on his face, a bit of a joy. Yeah, there's many examples. People that had suicides, people that lost people to suicide, they came to join. I'm not saying we have all the answers or that's not, that's also one more step, but that's kind of an anchor and I feel for myself. That sounds like my weekly anchor. So every week we know that the group is there. You can rock up, do your thing, or you can just share and have a laugh.

Daniel

Yeah, I suspect there aren't always answers, but it's as you've said in one of your posts and as we talk about, it's about how you deal with the particular situation. And there may not be an answer, but it's about how you reflect upon what's happening.

Filipe

Exactly, exactly. And have a space for that.

Daniel

What we've just talked about is men that have come to an issue, but I guess throughout a relationship or just a work situation, men are often in a position where they're sort of feeling pressure to hold it together. Don't talk about things, just keep going. But do you have any thoughts or comments around working before things get to a critical mass and what men can do to relieve the pressure?

Filipe

Yes. And I talk from my own experience. Seek professional help when before things get overwhelmed. I did that at the time with my stress and burnout at work. I seek for counseling and I had counseling every five, six weeks for near two years. That really helped me a lot. There is many different kinds of help out there. There is these social groups that we said. There's some more like fitness group as well. There is professional help as well outside. Back to your question, I would advise if before things getting too difficult, start with talking to a friend. If you don't feel comfortable or if you don't have a close friend, you are able to go to that deepseek professional help. And then you can actually build out from there.

Daniel

You work in an environment where it's fairly male dominated. What's the culture like in an environment like that? And can you start to see any symptoms of men struggling in that group? And does it start to become more obvious to you as you start to see opportunities to help them?

Filipe

Yeah, I've been working in infrastructure construction jobs for many years. And it's still a male dominated industry. My own experience and for what I see dealing in talking with people on these sites, there is a shift out there. Slowly the eyes are getting thinner for the men to open. Sometimes we just need that initial chat. And are you okay day is not only September. Are you okay day? It's every day. And I feel like on the construction sites, that mentality, it's getting built. And also I'm aware and I try to keep in perspective because sometimes I tend to live on a positive bubble, on a good way because I relate to different men's group. And mostly of those men's group, everyone are opened. And I know there's a lot of work to do to be done out there. And that's, I'm not going to go to the end of the story, but that's one of the reasons I I start my own business, my own practice, and I'm outside on the street to start the conversation. And after we met, then I had a bit of an upgrade on my pop-up, which I have now a jar with questions. You missed the update, which was an idea of a friend of mine. Actually, it's a conversation starter, and it's deep questions. Then people can answer at the time if they want, or you can just take home and reflect. And on construction sites, those are your okay days, which is 365 days a year, are getting more open. That's a reflection. That's the sign I have. Different people can have different experience, but that's the one I have on a construction site and around my daily life.

Daniel

Can you give me an example of one or two questions that people can pull out of your jar?

Filipe

Today was some of people talking today was what are you hiding? And the other one, if I remember now was what was the person in your life that influenced you the most, your relationship with money?

Daniel

Great questions, man.

Filipe

Yeah, these kind of questions. Because the other day I'm laughing because the other day I went to my son for a drive and he took a question. it was very simple like what was your what was what is your best cooking skill and like I said son I think I'm gonna I'm gonna remove that question from the jar we need deeper yeah those kind of questions to make people reflect and no obligation they could they could they they can take the people piece of paper home and reflect I must try to bring those questions to my pocket on a construction site.

Daniel

I love it I think you should I think it's awesome Given that you're exposed to many different men in different parts of your life, have you noticed that there's any difference in the cultural background of the men and how they approach different situations? Or are men just men wherever they're from?

Filipe

What experience I have, men are just men. for the experience I have of course as as professional we are taught to approach and be open to different backgrounds but men are just men and since we spoke I also open to women as well and that has has has a reason behind because I was I was invited for a men's for a men's event a few weeks ago organized by a women's group and one of the questions that We had a bit of a brief, a bit of a coffee before, and one of the questions, what needs to happen moving forward? And the first thing came to my mind at the time was actually we need to start to create events with men and women together so we can listen to each other's perspectives. Of course, there's a lot of logistics on the background for safety. Let's not get into that now. I'm just like the general idea. And then I was reflecting on my own practice. Actually, I want to be part of the solution of bringing men to understand better women's perspective and women's understanding a bit of a more men's perspective. And I changed my approach on my streets and my practice for men and women, which can bring back to your question. Men are just men and overall women are more open, but that's our primary brain is wired from back in the days, men went hunt and women, we communicate shoulder to shoulder and women stay on, stay behind and have a bit more social, social brain. But yeah, man on man, there is some common issues I can see outside there, like relationships, problems, stress at work, anxiety, and so many beautiful, beautiful stories I'm witnessing there as well.

Daniel

Why do men lose social connection as they get older, do you think? I certainly have come across guys in my life who, they just get more lonely and they just can't, they find it hard to make friendships, whereas women are so good at making friends and keeping friends. What do you think their story is there?

Filipe

Yeah, that takes me back to our, I was talking before. It's a bit of like our primal brain. So we still have a bit of a primal brain and it's wired that way. So men, we went plant back in the days and did our own thing and women, they stay back in the cave and be more social. I think we still have that wires. Women are natural, more open as a group and they create their own small circles while us maybe we think we are still a lonely, lonely wolf and it can be a bit more difficult to to make connection also life gets busy and I don't necessarily agree with the expression that it's difficult to make friendships when you are adult and older. It's just a matter to take yourself a bit of outside of a comfortable zone and join some social groups. Yeah, I think we just need to battle that normal, normal tend to be a lonely wolf, which are not, we have everyone needs connection. And if there's something I want to share with you, Dane, from the past weeks on my streets, I had an 18-old man that sat on my chair some weeks ago. 18 or 18? 18, 18. He was on a gap year before uni. And then he sat in my chair and then after five seconds he said, the meaning of life is to connect to as many people as you can in life and be kind to everyone.

Daniel

Yeah, totally.

Filipe

And I gave him a hug. I said, mate, you're going to be all right.

Daniel

He learned the secret early.

Filipe

I mean, he's right.

Daniel

He's absolutely right. But it's not easy for a lot of guys. A lot of guys don't have the confidence or just haven't had that experience either. They've perhaps been working by themselves or in an office that wasn't particularly culturally friendly towards that sort of environment. So I guess over time, for some guys, it's kind of difficult. But as you said, there are plenty of groups out there, men's groups that are non-judgmental. Join sporting groups, sporting clubs, that sort of thing can go a long way to helping people. Any other suggestions?

Filipe

I was listening to you and I was reflecting on my journey. Don't take me wrong, it took me six months to join my first running club. right invited by a friend that I met on my one of the things that I do on my volunteering in 2023 sorry 20 2023 in Febru it took me six months to join a running club and that was the breaking the ice and even a men's group that I'm part of took me three months of a friend say you should join you should join and I was walking at the beach and I could see this big group of guys and in in my stomach will be like, no, I can never join them because what can I say and what can I wear? And I'm not going to fit in in all these stories that we tell ourselves. And one day I just like, okay, effort, I just go. And the first guy that I met on my first day became one of my best friends. You never know what's on the other side. So another more tips. You got me there.

Daniel

That's okay.

Filipe

So that's why I'm here. I will go back to exercise, actually. Exercise is very important. Keep also healthy diets. I don't drink alcohol for the last four years. I was never a big drinker, but because my lifestyle didn't fit alcohol. And that was one of best decisions.

Daniel

I think that's a really valuable one because a lot of guys hide their feelings in alcohol in a bottle and it really just sends them down a big spiral. I know that stopping alcohol makes a significant difference for the ability to cope with different stressful situations and find themselves. And I think that's so important to stop that. And as you said, You know, I'm a naturopath, so a healthy diet's core to everything I believe in, but certainly helps a lot with mental health as well.

Filipe

100% then, 100%. Actually, I'm writing a couple of articles about those two topics. One is avoidance that we use through alcohol, and another one is finding ourselves and discover ourselves in silence.

Daniel

Yeah, okay, talk to me about silence.

Filipe

So I started my own journey through silence Around a year ago, when I had a really difficult day on my birthday, I was dealing with difficult situations of physical and emotional pain in the same day. And for some reason, I just sat on my sofa. I said, I'm not going to avoid this. I'm going to just sit here and let my body express everything. It was one of those cathartic moments in life. I was sitting on myself in silence, looking at the wall for an hour. and it was one of the best things I did because from then I go I advise people to go on walks with no phone with no podcast no music I used to joke Leonardo da Vinci on the 15th century or 16th century he was this big creator because he was bored on a way right he opened his creative mind so the more we allow ourselves to face the silence and embrace it we want to find ourselves the answers to our questions will come up naturally because our brain is not getting distracted by social media or whatever music or whatever you want to call it it can be I say to my friends silence can be our best friends but sometimes not the kindest.

Daniel

That's a nice way of putting it you know what I love about Bronte this is the reason I go to Bronte I go there and I sit there and I close my eyes and I listen to the waves and I just focus on the waves coming in and I try to hear everything going around but I just let it pass through and my attention is on those waves and I do that for 30 minutes and I tell you the clarity that comes to you for the day it just sets you up for the day and if you can find those sounds in nature that you can just focus on and get your breathing You know, make sure you breathe and and deep breaths and just focus on the sounds for 20, 30, 40 minutes. It's really powerful. It's really amazing.

Filipe

Beautiful, beautiful. I love I love that. I love that. I don't know if I if I can share a bit of my my business here, but.

Daniel

Yeah, go for it.

Filipe

How thank you. How I create the name of my business came from one of those silent works. So My business name, as you know, it's Phil Hurds. And one day I was walking and I was reflecting, okay, what are you bringing new to this world by creating your business, right? Like, that's the whole point. At least it should be. So I was reflecting on my friends' feedback and I always heard of Phil, we always feel nice when we talk to you, like you're always warm and you're always present. and we find that you can hear us and that stay in my mind okay so feel heard because we all need or we all have the necessity at some stage in our lives or days to feel heard right to have a place that we acknowledge and someone resonates with us and that came from the silence and so I completely understand your your feeling when you go to Bronte and you have that silence for your morning meditations. Yeah, that's where the answers will come slowly.

Daniel

You know, it's interesting, my concern is often for young people. And I read in the paper about people like Andrew Tate and the manosphere and all this stuff he creates, all this anger and all this fighting and this is the way we do it and women aren't worth it and men have to be strong and all that stuff he teaches it really frightens me for the mental health of young men particularly and you know how do we get these guys who I suspect need more connection in their life how do we build connection for these lost young men who have got so many influences in their life through the internet and social media and crazy stories on TV how do we start to break through that Phil?

Filipe

Then I think that's a million dollar question these days as a father of 21 year old daughter and a 9 year old son that's always our concerns right uh they can be and they are they are influenced by this by this people online I'm not going to get in details because we got too politic on that one I would say ask them questions as a father ask them calm questions I feel quite connected with my son when we go for our lunch it's just us we leave the phones in a car we go for lunch and I don't ask any questions I just go with him I I I tend to share my goals in life I tend to share my day and throughout being open, they tend to be open as well. If there is something I can answer your question, is that be open and your kids will follow your lead. At least that's the way I feel. Don't take me wrong. It's a challenge and we all know like we have kids, teenagers and young teenagers and And you need to hold space for them as well, because it's a difficult stage of their lives as a teenager and young adults on this world. Provides calm and safe situations to interact with them, to connect. Don't force. And they will open. They will open.

Daniel

I think that's a really valuable point you made there is about that connection between parents, but in this case, fathers and sons. You made a couple of really good points there. One is leave your phone in your car. I love that because you just want to be there and present for them and making yourself available and open is absolutely critical. And I completely support what you just said. No judgment.

Filipe

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You had a good point there. No judgment because It's like, hello, it's our sons and our daughters and we are worried for them and we want the best for them. But if they share something that it makes you a bit discomfort, we have to sometimes to see to that, right? Because they are human beings as well and they have their own perspective. And as men, we try to jump into solution, fixed mode. And that's I learned the hard way then. I learned the hard way.

Daniel

We sure can.

Filipe

We need to listen. Active listening is one of the best skills that men can invest.

Daniel

Active listening is the correct terminology. But I think men with young children, we develop a very good poker face because your children might tell you something. And on the inside, you might want to say, oh, my God, but you just stay calm.

Filipe

Yeah, I know, I know. Of course, it's not a straight line. And I ride the waves on my teenagers. Yeah, it's never a straight line, but start somewhere and be open and create a safe space for them. I believe it's the best starting point.

Daniel

Yeah. All right, Phil, well, mate, how do people get in touch with you? You've started a counseling service, feel heard. dot au and people can, is that a website or is that a Facebook page?

Filipe

Yes, so philherds.onewords.au is my website. I have all my contacts there and people can actually book an initial phone call for free, 10 minutes. We have a bit of a chat we can assess. We actually can assess if I'm the right counselor for them or not. So it's not, not It's not a size fits all. So Phil herds, just one word.au, or you can go to my Instagram, which is Phil underscore herd underscore. And then you can just have it. On my Instagram also, I post some videos on Matterhalf space. Not everything that comes out of my mouth is wisdom, but at least I try to give some points and some reflections that people can use. So feelheard.nu or feelheard on Instagram and then just get in touch.

Daniel

Yeah, yeah. And the important message really is that a lot of us are in the same boat. So if you're feeling like this, it's just good to speak to people and you'll be amazed that everybody goes through the same journey at the end of the day.

Filipe

100%. I love that we are all in the same boat called life. And then the more people I meet on my street pop-ups, the more I realize that that's actually true. We are all in the same boat. And a bit of a side note on that one, on my engineering job, I'm helping also on a mental health space. I'm writing some articles for them. And I had a one-on-one with my manager a couple weeks ago, and actually I told him, and we are kind of close, and he's very supportive of my journey. And actually I told him, mate, I'm coming to office now with a completely different perspective. The job is the same, the people are the same, but in the past I'll be, I'll look like, I have to do this. And now I'm more like, I got to do this. And also these are just people try their best. And then we go from there.

Daniel

Perfect. And I love that you're involved with the men's groups. How do men find the men's groups? I know in Sydney you run a few, but generally speaking, how do you find groups that you can join?

Filipe

I would advise just do some search online.

Daniel

Okay.

Filipe

Online around Sydney. All of them have Instagram pages you can just pop up. Most of them you don't have to sign or pay anything. Some of the guys they meet every week, some of the groups they meet every month. Normally the Instagram are quite good because they give all the instructions. As far as I know, they're all free. And then it's like we said before, it's not one size fits all. You can go for one. I have friends that I brought some of the groups and they love it. And then it's not for me because I do different things, which is fine. And others never left. A bit of trial and error. Put yourself out there.

Daniel

Okay. All right, my friend. Well, thank you very much for your time.

Filipe

Thank you so much, Dan. It was a pleasure. And I remember our first interaction at the beach. You were quite curious.

Daniel

You've got to stay curious. That's it. All right. Well, take care. And I will I'll see you down at I'll see you down at Bronte soon.

Filipe

For sure. Thank you so much, Dan. And thanks, everyone. Thank you.

Daniel

Okay. Thanks, mate.