Blueprint for Wellness

Health is wealth. In this episode Dr Iggy Soosay (driggysoosay.com.au) shares is expansve knowledge and experience on how to maximise your health potential at all stages of life. You are never too young or too old to reframe your approach towards ageing well (without a fistful of medicatons)

Transcript

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DB

Hello Doctor Iggy Soosay.

Dr Soosay

Hello, Mr Baden. Hello. I am very well. Thank you

DB

I must say you always look very well.

Dr Soosay

Thank you very much.

DB

Which is very appropriate because we're going be talking about healthy ageing today and it really helps that the expert on the topic actually looks well. The What you you've been a doctor for over 40 years and you've been a a regular medical practitioner.

Dr Soosay

Thank you. 50 years, yeah.

DB

But you also practise. Integrative medicine or holistic medicine depart depending on what part of the world that you're in, and you know healthy ageing, I guess, is something that is a topic that's been very familiar to many people in the holistic scene for several decades now. I guess you know that in the US, it's healthy ageing societies and Australia, we caught on a bit. Wait a minute. We got there. I'm wondering if you could just let the audience know what healthy ageing actually is. What does it mean to you?

Dr Soosay

Yeah. Healthy ageing, I say, starts before birth because with the the the foetus is exposed to all sorts of toxins these days, so it's already starts behind the 8 ball with the toxins that are being infected that are affecting it and and that's already starts an inflammatory process. And after birth, with the with the various chemical exposure, the diet of the mother. All that the ageing starts then. So I say we've got start whenever. Whenever somebody is approaching looking at their health then they start the healthy ageing then because it's a preventative process with the amount of toxins and and their diet especially, I'm just looking writing. Something on takeaway? Take out that the that the general public too and they finding that the millennials, which is the 2529 to 44 year old are taking three times taking take out three times a week. And in America, about 15% of them take out every day. And the millennials always order it as a home delivery. So this is what we're exposed to and and and that's what they're saying that this the, the, the group that are coming up now are going to live shorter than we than and and less healthy. Then people in our age group. Because of the various the the dietary indiscretions.

DB

Yeah. Well, I guess there's two aspects to that. One is the the dietary choices they make. So when you get more take outs or non home cooked meals. I suppose you're exposing yourself to far more fat. Are the wrong types of fats, and by the wrong types of fats there are arguments on this, but there's certainly a whole movement against seed based oils and and these sorts of things are are associated with chronic inflammation and then the other aspect is. The additional salt, any other preservatives, monosodium glutamate, but also the other side of it is all the packaging they use and the packaging. When you expose a lot of those once only use plastics to heat and microwaving.

Dr Soosay

Yes.

DB

You get all the erosion of chemicals from the packaging into the food as well, which is talking about these forever chemicals. So is that is that what you're generally talking about here? Yep.

Dr Soosay

Hey. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because most people think of they they know. Most of them seem to be aware that they shouldn't be putting the plastics into microwave, but then they get their hamburgers in in paper wraps. But they're lined with forever chemicals to stop the the leaking of the of the fluids through the paper on the cardboard. And they stick that in the microwave. And that's getting even more stuff, you know, so. It's and then the. The whole idea of micro plastics and nano plastics that are that we've exposed to in so much in the way they put stuff on their faces, on their shampoos, their conditioners, all the all the personal use products contain these chemicals that they that they. Absorbing and the body is then under stress to produce, to try and detoxify. About that, and it's a huge problem and it's going to have an increasing problem, yes.

Speaker

Yeah.

DB

So the word that comes up, I mean this is the just when we talk about chemicals this this could just occupy the whole one hour. Of the podcast today.

Dr Soosay

Yes, yes.

DB

It's a massive, massive topic. Yeah, which just doesn't get discussed enough. However, it all leads to a particular term which in my view is immunosenescence. Ageing of the immune system. Our immune system always ages, but I I hope you agree that all the stuff that we're doing makes it age faster.

Dr Soosay

Right, yes. Yes.

DB

Do you agree?

Dr Soosay

Yes, yes. Yeah, that's that's one aspect of the healthy ageing is the is the immunos in essence is what we're fighting against.

DB

With that, Yep.

Dr Soosay

You know right from the beginning. Again, the immune system is programmed by the gut microbiota. You know it, it is the one that's involved in that and that's the one with the with the, with the diet that we are being exposed to and all the chemicals and the wrong fats and the and the processed meats, ultra processed food. That all triggers off and affects the microbiota, which then affects the immune system. And of course that that's that's often inflammatory process which sets up the inflammaging, immunosenescence and so on.

DB

So would you see inflammation as one of the major causes of chronic diseases that we're seeing in practise? Today.

Dr Soosay

Absolutely. That's the that's the underlying fact is the inflammation is the process, you know and we know that acute inflammation is fine because it's can be life saving. But chronic inflammation is the issue where the body is turned on and the fire is on and it's slowly smouldering away, affecting us, yes.

DB

So just for our listeners, some half of our listener base are medical professionals, some sort the other half, the general public who don't have you know your training. So just for the conversation, how do you define the differences between chronic and acute inflammation?

Dr Soosay

Yes. So acute inflammation is when we have an infection, a cut on our skin, the body responds to bring in blood into the into the system. The immune system starts to activate to fight any infection. So, and then, once that infection is overcome. Then the IT starts into an anti inflammatory process. The macrophages which are the ones that are triggering off in secrete chemicals to kill off the infection, then turn around and produce anti inflammatory substances to turn to turn down the inflammation and cut it off and then refine. But if there's an ongoing assault on the body with infection or whatever. Then the body is constantly fighting, and it's then turning on a lot of various cytochemical. Which then triggers off an ongoing process as cascading process that goes on and there's no turn off and and a slow burn on. This is what causes the an an inflammaging and also accelerates the ageing generally. But and and it is the underlying cause for all the chronic diseases. Because once, once that starts off, it get the diabetes and the atherosclerosis and dementias and all that sort of thing can happen over a period of time.

DB

Yeah. How does is that where genetics come in? So if you have a process of immunosenescence and inflammaging. Does that overlay your your fundamental genetic predisposition as to which chronic disease you'll end up moving towards, do you think?

Dr Soosay

To some extent it it the genetics plays a role. Genetics is is something that we've got no control over. We we're stuck with that. But how we can switch on the genetics or not is what we've got control. Over that much we can so the diet and the sleep and the exercise. All these come to come and come into play, to start to impact the genetics. So we we can prevent a lot of the genetics from being triggered if we take the right actions. But if we don't then the genetics. Becomes a predominant factor.

DB

I'm really interested. You've been a medical doctor. I mean, for a while. Long while. And there is a slowly growing trend amongst medical doctors to take a more holistic point of view. But you are well ahead of the curve here.

Speaker

Mm-hmm.

DB

What made you decide to step into holistic or natural medicine?

Dr Soosay

When I first qualified. In in Melbourne I after two years of hospital work, I set up in and in general practise, you know, in an older part of of the. City where where a lot of pensioners were my clientele, I got very busy very quickly, but all I was doing was prescribing anti hypertensives anti inflammatories heart failure medication in those days and that's all I was doing and and seeing the occasional infection and sending them off to hospital or sending the specialist and that's all I was doing and I thought. Eight years, six years of hospital of university and two years of practise in the hospitals. That's all I'm doing is writing prescriptions. So I thought there's got to be a better way. And actually my patients were the trigger. A lot of them were came in asking why is it I'm getting this and and I started questioning myself why what what is the underlying cause for all of these. And that's when I started looking at and reading and at that time there was not much the 50 years ago, there wasn't much information out there that you couldn't get much in the way of vitamins other than basic, very low, low level, low, low, lower dosages of vitamins. And I found at meetings we met a few other doctors who were also in the same dilemma. So we got together and we started to exchange ideas and what worked and whatnot. We changed case histories and and then we started the former colour, a little group of us we met regularly and then we decided to get the. College going, which is the Australasian College of Nutritional Environment, Medicine or? Magnum, it grew from there, yes.

DB

OK. Right, right. Well, I'm currently on the border backing. Him so my. Current role is your fault.

Dr Soosay

I think I'm the only practising Dr from that original founding members.

DB

Right. OK. Right. OK. Yeah. That's really interesting because you know what we're talking about is, is something that many of us in the holistic world are very familiar with. The idea of toxins and and food choices and the effect on the microbiome. However, we are still in the minority. I think I know the world is slowly changing, but one feels that to make quantum change to health you need to have significant momentum amongst the medical professions and I don't think we're there yet. So I'm wondering how your colleagues who are not holistic see you and. And people and other doctors that do take. A holistic view.

Dr Soosay

Well, initially it was. It was very difficult because we were the minority. But now now I I suppose now I'm in a in a in a group of people who are all holistic. So I don't have much to do with the with the, with the non believers. I don't come into contact with a lot of them.

Speaker

Yeah, right.

Dr Soosay

And and I think a lot of them have toned down their anger and you know the, the the disagreements with us now because there's a lot more even in the in the, in the medical press, there's a lot more of this, what diet and whatnot. I think it's changing, it's slowly changing. But you know, they're they're also the die hards, but as I say, they're the ones who are not looking after the. Health they're going to die of anyway.

Speaker

OK.

DB

All right, so we've talked about the effects of inflammation and you know, it leads to conditions like arthritis, cognitive impairment or or brain function, type 2 diabetes. As an example, cancer would be an example. There are many, many examples. And as we get older, we know so many people ourselves. Personally or you know, here are patients that go through so many things. How do you start to change people's lives? When people come to see you, are they prepared for a discussion around the changes that they need to make to get on with their lives in? A healthy way.

Dr Soosay

Yes, I'm in the lucky position now after all these years of people know about, know about me before they come. So they're expecting that they're going to be changing. But initially it was very hard because I had to convince them about the benefits of the diets. And lifestyle and some. Did follow and some didn't because they wanted the magic bullet, which I wasn't offering. But now, now they come in and because we use the questionnaire which a lot of the doctors are doing, we get a full history from them and they already know that they're going to make some changes and it's going to be difficult with. Some of them. So it's, it's not hard now, but my fundamental purpose premise here is that a lot of this stuff starts at the gut.

Speaker

Yes.

Dr Soosay

So I start with usually looking at their diet and doing a a stool analysis. We'll work with that. And then I would try and point out how their lifestyle is is impacting  the gut. When you find that they've usually they always have. Some form of gut issue going on, whether it's Constipation, diarrhoea or indigestion or reflux. And UM then working from there. I try and explain to them how the how the digestion works and how a lot of times they're actually missing out on the enzymes, the digestive enzymes because it's not look that most people are taking stuff to suppress acid. Whereas we're finding a lot more people are coming up with lack of digestive acid and that causes a whole host of problems down below because they're protein is not digested going down to the large pile that is causing more issues as well and try and explain that. And when if I can explain that in a in a logical manner, they seem to accept that fact that and the and the complexity in the gut in the lower bowel how the gut bacteria are so dependent on fibre coming through. Whereas with eating a lot of them, especially with KERA, genic diets are eating a lot more protein, which the body cannot hand. It's not. If it can't it, it absorbs a certain amount of protein, but the excess protein ends up in the large bowel, which then becomes a a toxic effect for the good bacteria. And the and the and the harmful bacteria multiply and then they start causing damage by the good bacteria because they don't have. Enough fibre start to use up the mucous membrane of the gut lining. And that then causes damage to the gut lining and the whole host of other problems start to happen once the gut gut has been breached, toxins go through and then inflammation starts up and wherever their problems are can be aggravated, whether it's dementia or arthritis or diabetes or liver problems or whatever.

Speaker

Yeah.

DB

We hear a lot about the keto Dieter we hear that term quite a bit. What is the keto diet please?

Dr Soosay

Well, the keto diet is there's a few variations on that, but the common one is whether you use a high level of. 13 I fat even and very low carbohydrates.

DB

OK. So would that be? Can you be keto and vegetarian or vegan? Or is keto always meat eating?

Dr Soosay

You can be vegetarian. There are some keto diets which are very high in the protein part of of vegetarian. I don't think it's that easy to be to get into ketosis with. That you really need to be having high animal protein.

DB

Right, OK. Yeah. Are there any other than the gut and the the associated long term gut issues? Are there any more immediate effects of the keto diet stress on the kidneys, stress on the liver? I little salt into the system?

Dr Soosay

To do that. Yes. Well, the bacteria in the gut bond, as I say, is there's too much protein coming down and there's protein coming undigested into the large bowel. Red meat, particularly, and eggs to some extent, produce a substance called trimethylamine TMA. And that gets absorbed and the liver then converts it to TMA. And that has been implicated in atherosclerosis, and there's a a bit of controversy with the keto type diet and TMAO, because a lot of studies have shown that they cause atherosclerosis, but other people are disagreeing with that. Yeah, and I say the problem is that when when they are assessing that they're not looking at the fact that how whether the digestive system is is OK or not. So the younger people seem to be getting away with that high ketones because the digest system can handle the extras and they're producing the enzymes to be able to digest the protein.

Speaker

Yes.

Dr Soosay

But the older person does not. Yeah, but they they they're not producing enough enzymes or even the digestive acid. Then you get undigested protein coming into the gut and that can trigger off the TMAO.

DB

Right.

Dr Soosay

That's not happened the other way, yeah.

DB

Do you think that overtime I mean you've done a lot of work and research and you used to have a YouTube channel on the microbiome at some point?

Dr Soosay

I see.

DB

And you, you are a microbiome expert, so a couple of questions relevant to this. Do you think a as we age past being an infant or a baby as an adult, as we age, do you think the microbiome changes? Naturally, without influences of drugs and these sorts of things. And secondly, do you think a persona's normal microbiome because we're all different will affect the way that they? Can tolerate a more meat heavy protein diet versus a vegan diet. This is a question about biological individuality, because different patients seem to cope with different things at different times of their lives. And I'm just trying to get some in-depth understanding whether the microbiome has a significant impact.

Dr Soosay

Yes.

DB

In all of that.

Dr Soosay

Yes, well the, the the first question is it the microbiome does change with age.

Speaker

They.

Dr Soosay

UM. And they like they found with the centenarians or the Super centenarians, as they call them. They tend to have a microbiome which is very more closely aligned with the younger person. Whereas the sick ones tend to have major changes where there is a lot more of the facultative anaerobes bacteria that can survive in oxygen or no oxygen, whereas the good bacteria only survives strict anaerobes, they only survive in an oxygen environment.

Speaker

And.

Dr Soosay

So that then causes we can talk about the details of that if you like as to how that can then affect the inflammatory process. So it does so that there is a natural progression with most people. There's a change of of of the microbiome. The second question is what was that again?

DB

It's really about the somebody's natural microbiome and whether that influences their diet and the impact that their diet has on them and and whether changing diet actually is better or worse.

Dr Soosay

Well, I think there's a there's definitely a a genetic basis of that. People who are brought up in our like in the, in the, in the Arctic. Ask him or he knew it. Type people. I'm sure they wouldn't. Couldn't be vegetarians. And likewise, the people who have brought up vegetarian for for many generations will have difficulty handling a meat diet because their microbiome will be appropriate. So I think there's definitely a. Specific microbiome, which suits some people and doesn't suit others. So I've got I've got one patient who's on the carnivore diet and it's doing really, really well. And he says well, but recently it's interesting. The Doctor, Carnivore himself has changed his mind. He was pushing that, and he's suddenly found that his testosterone level tanked and he couldn't sleep and he was getting aches and pains, and he's now switched and gone off the carnivore diet. And he grows more carbohydrates.

Speaker

Yeah.

DB

Who's doctor carnival?

Dr Soosay

He's a he's a he's a he's a doctor in the. If you put up Doctor Carnival, you'll come up like I don't remember his name, but in America? Well, you've actually written a book on us because you please. And then he's got a small following of people  who, who tend to go on that. But of course long term, you can't just survive on meat. You know, they talk about the Palaeolithic diet, that's how they lived. And you know that sort of.

DB

OK.

Dr Soosay

Logic, but it doesn't work at all.

DB

Yeah, well. The whole environment part of the big picture, I feel, is that our environment is changing because of all the chemicals and. Stuff we've talked. About earlier, faster than we as humans can adapt and so you know.

Dr Soosay

Right, yeah. Yeah. One doctor mccalla. You know, he's he was a big hitter fan, he pretty. He published a book on it. He's really changed his mind again.

DB

Right again.

Dr Soosay

And he's saying he needs a lot more carbohydrates. Rather, the change is happening.

DB

Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. It's so interesting. When we spoke a little while ago and just just to to put an exclamation mark or a full stop at where we've just the topic we've just been talking about. You mentioned a patient that you had at some point. He was in his 50s, came to see you in Type 2 diabetes, his low density lipoproteins are up. So his cholesterol, the bad cholesterol. Up and I'm not sure if you would put him on a ketogenic diet or whether he came in to see you with a ketogenic diet, but it wasn't working for him. What was happening there?

Dr Soosay

He. It is an interesting place that he is. Here's the Type 2 diabetes quite obese. It's about 110 kilos. You know, BMI was about 35 and he, his son, was also obese. Went on a keto diet and lost enormous amount of weight. Umm so so he did the this gentleman then started to put himself on a keto diet but he he just could not stick with it. His his insulin level was huge at about 25 or something fasting insulin. And he just couldn't stick with it because he's he's he's saying he was on a keto diet, lost about 10 kilos and then couldn't lose it anymore. But his his diet was just he liked 2 sugars so would never, never really get there. But he he actually had a because he couldn't do it. He had a heart attack and he had a stenting and he had to go on the regular stuff, you know. Statins and whatnot?

DB

With somebody like that, that's craving sugar, for example, trying to change the diet. Is it your view that that? Craving is coming from the microbiome, influencing the brain. Or is it possible that it's other brain chemicals that are so hooked into the type of diet, or a combination of both?

Dr Soosay

Very interesting question. Yes, there's twofold. There's one is the the fact that you have sugar the the Physiology of what happens is you have sugar, it gives you a dopamine hit part of the brain triggers off the dopamine and.

DB

Yes.

Dr Soosay

Once you have enough of it, then you're you. You're craving the dopamine hit, and that in itself starts the process of the craving 1 #2 is that the bacteria in in the gut? Also if they so once. The bacteria grow according to what you feed them. The more you feed the one that particular type of bacteria multiplies. So if you're feeding sugar and and refined carbs, the bacteria multiplies so that that will metabolise. That, yes, and they then release chemicals that goes via the vagus nerve. This is the the gut brain connection to the brain to trigger off the craving as well. So there's a double whammy of cravings that occur, one triggered by the gut bacteria and the other one by the dopamine itself. Yeah, it's a, it's. And so the you need to work on both those. So cutting out the car, the carbs and the sugars. Can be difficult initially, but that's you've got to get over that hump of the dopamine hit and slowly wean yourself off as well as handling the gut bacteria, which means handling the the the gut health in terms of the damage that's already occurred in the leaky gut and and and and. Doing probiotics, prebiotics, all that sort of thing to try and change that and it can. Done.

DB

Yeah, a little bit of selfish indulgence here, if you don't mind. So you mentioned that the, the, the, the, the chemical messaging from the the microbiome in the gut to the brain is via the vagus nerve.

Speaker

MHM.

DB

And the vagus nerve has a lot of branches that come off it into the lungs into other parts of the garage, female reproductive system, etc.

Speaker

Yes.

DB

Do you think it's possible or maybe likely that the microbiome messaging also affect some of the branches and may cause, for example, if someone's eating a lot of sugar and their asthma gets worse temporarily, do you think there's a relationship there?

Dr Soosay

The asthma.

DB

Or some other ongoing health concern based on diet. I mean because we've always looked at the microbiome and I'm going a little bit off piece here, so please indulge. Indulge me.

Dr Soosay

Yeah. Yes, OK.

DB

We we, we we we've always. Thought the microbiome, you know and and a leaky gut sort of situation would cause some sort of bloodborne inflammatory condition with lots of mediator cells and chemical attractant cells to inflammation floating. But is it possible that the microbiome messaging is also sending direct messages through various branches of the of the vagus nerve into into other parts of the body?

Dr Soosay

Well, I don't know about going via the vagus nerve, but there's definitely a. A gut lung connection. Gut lung axis as there is a gut liver axis and a gut bone axis and even a gut eye axe.

DB

Yep.

Dr Soosay

So there's definitely there's some connection going on, whether it's a vagus nerve or not, we don't know. I don't think that's been identified, but the yes, definitely there's connections.

DB

Yeah. OK. So just stepping back to your patient for one second, he had a heart attack. He he put him on the normal, you know, Western medicine type drugs just to help him out to, to get through a point. What was the next step for you? Well, in, in, in the case.

Speaker

Hmm.

Dr Soosay

Well, I  did help him in terms of the sugars, but I used berberine which helped him actually lowered the. And lowered his blood sugars quite dramatically without having to go on escalating with his antidiabetic medication. That certainly helped, but, and. And the diet thing we could help we we lost about 10 kilos as I say but. His sugar was a big thing in there, you know, and. He always talks about the cake shop next door that he that he funds.

DB

Did you did you write a Prescription for moving house.

Dr Soosay

Yeah, it's quite a challenging man. It's a very funny man, but it's very challenging and what we what we could do. But the but the LDL had another patient with the interesting young she's in in her 40s, professional woman who came in with with a very high family with the strong family history of heart disease. And she came in and wanted to to see if we can prevent it.

Speaker

Sorry.

Dr Soosay

And so I did her. Her cholesterols were slightly elevated, her LDL was high. And of course, the next step I did was to do a calcium score on her to see whether there was any blockages. We've given a families to because of both the parents had it and her brother had had heart attacks. So, but a calcium 0 calcium score was 0. So she didn't have any, any, any plaque that was visible. But we did lipoprotein small A which. Conventional medicine has not looked at at all because there's no medication for it. And her lover protein, her smaller was high and years and years ago it was some way I read that nicotinic acid can help. Yeah. So we put her on some nicotinic acid. That is not nicotinamide, but nicotinic acid, which of course can cause flushes and prickly, prickly, prickly rash and started over 1/4 of a tablet just there when it come as 250 mg and slowly increased. It and it took about six months, but it reduced the lipoproteins more like not to normal levels, but it brought it down because you know and and so she she she's still continuing continuing to take that and we'll we'll see what happens but that's.

DB

Nicotinic acid is one of the forms of vitamin B3 now. Lipo small a - What does that represent to you as a medical practitioner? What do you? Think it means and what are the potential knock on effects or why aren't we looking at it more?

Dr Soosay

It has been it it. It's definitely been related to heart disease. We we know that it can cause it can aggravate it. But why? We're not looking at it more is because there's no drug for it. They're starting to bring. They're looking at that and they and they think some of the newer ones may help that, but we're not. Sure. And for that reason and not. This is typical of the Pharmaceutical industry when there's a drug, every doctor will know about it, but until then, nobody is interested, you know.

DB

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I gave a I went around the country with a professor a few years ago talking about non alcoholic fatty liver and and and no one had really heard of it much. But but there's no drug at the time.

Dr Soosay

There's there's, there's still nothing much there. There's nothing much.

DB

Right. OK. You know, I guess that brings us to the importance of dietary individuality and everyone responds differently. But to make things potentially more effective for our patients, often herbs or vitamins are used in addition to lifestyle and dietary changes. Is there anything that you commonly use or think are highly relevant? To to. Chronic inflammatory type of conditions. I know that's a very big question, but do you have any favourites?

Dr Soosay

Yeah. And depending on where the, what, what sort of inflammation there is, but we certainly use a lot of Kakuma.

DB

Yep.

Dr Soosay

Turmeric. Yeah. Certain turmeric extract use a lot of that. Boswellia is another one that we use for inflammation. But for the gut thing, certainly berberine resveratrol used to alter the gut bacteria that that has been shown to help. And then for the for the, for the sugar things. Gymnema, fenugreek. Those are the things that come to. Mind, I do a lot with with liver, liver, herbs, because I find most people have got problems, especially when they come in with chemical sensitivities. Increasing chemical sensitivities usually indicates them the liver dysfunction and. Beating the liver, herbs with, you know, St maybe Cecil. Probably choke dandelion. Fringe tree these sort of things and I get good results with that because the people start to feel a whole lot better. In fact, they come in once a year and say I need my my liver is playing up because they can feel not so good that they get tired and using the liver programme does make a big difference. So in terms of supplements, I mean, I've put most people on some form of. Broad base multivitamin, in fact. Now some studies are showing that the older people, certainly cognition, makes a difference if they're taking a regular multivitamin. Yeah, so. We use that and with the chemicals certainly comes back to the liver again. They've exposed a lot of chemicals to be used to work with the liver. The other thing that I'm looking at, especially with. With chronic pain, when patients come in with a problem which we can't get a handle on, mould seems to come up a lot. So I'm testing for mould toxins in the body and. For dementia, early, early cognitive problems, mould seems to play a big role and treating that makes a difference as well.

DB

Yeah, that's enormous. Well, the liver is considered for a non medical listeners to be the body's chemical factory means it, meaning it produces a lot of chemicals, but it also is also the principal organ in our body for detoxing. A lot of the chemicals we're exposed to.

Dr Soosay

Correct. Yeah.

DB

Though it makes complete sense that the approach towards helping the liver to detoxify is so important for ongoing health, especially when we're exposed to a lot of chemicals out there. Are you a really old fashioned guy where you're mixing your own herbs and liquid herbs, or are you using?

Dr Soosay

Yeah. That's right. Yes, absolutely.

DB

Tablets or mixture? Yeah.

Dr Soosay

I used to used to, but I haven't done it for about. Almost 20 years now, because the tablets, and you know there's a lot of them out there now. Which are quite. Good formulations. So we use them.

DB

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Compliance is probably a little bit better.

Dr Soosay

That's right. Yes, yes. And it also becomes expensive for the herbs to get to have somebody mixing them and yeah.

DB

Yeah, with chronic illness and disease, is it ever too late for somebody to start, you know, if somebody comes in and they're 80 years old, they've got maybe some cognitive impairment, some inflammation, some arthritic inflammation. At what point? Do you think I can't do much for you? Is that point does? That point exist.

Dr Soosay

Well, look, I mean if it's a, it's a terminal illness of course is different, but with the dementia, I had a man. With 84. He came in, it was in the early stages. Mild dementia. It's definitely proven on on spec scanning and with him I found it as mould and we managed to reduce the eliminated mould out of his body. And then I didn't seem for a while and his his wife wrote to me when he passed, but he had. But she said he had a good four years after the treatment where he was reasonably well. So at 84 to another four years is 88, when he when he passed. And so it it it. I don't think there's a there's a time when you can say never an interesting thing. And there's also I was just reading a study of in the states where they took 90 year old people in a bar. Both from nursing home and they put them on the resistance exercise for I think it was about 6 weeks and they found that they had improved their strength, something like about 140% this is.

Speaker

Yeah.

Dr Soosay

Post 90 and above. So you know, and then we know now more and more that how muscle is plays such an important role in general health. It's not just about movement and balance, it's has a role with cognition, more exercise improves cognition and and it produces so many. Chemicals and hormones that improve overall health in terms of immunity as well. So no, you there's, I don't think there's the short answer is there's no no such thing as it's too late.

DB

Yeah, OK, that's good.

Dr Soosay

Please do something, yeah.

DB

So do you have a fundamental suggestion dietary plan? For somebody in the 60 plus age group, is it fundamentally vegetable with a little bit of protein? Is it mainly plant based with hardly any protein or just fish? Is there a view that you have around? What they should be eating.

Dr Soosay

Yes, the the, the, the one that's proven over and over again, multiple studies is the Mediterranean diet, yes. But the Mediterranean diet is more a Mediterranean lifestyle. It's not just about diet, yeah. So their whilst their diet is mainly plant based, over 50% of it is is plant. And. They have protein. The protein is fish. And chicken eggs and red meat are usually used As for festivals. Celebrations, weddings, religious festivals. They celebrate. So really, the amount of red meat is very low. They have a bit of fish, but most of the other things are legumes and vegetables. So. In terms of what I would recommend for people is number 1 is how much can they tolerate? You know we've put them on a strict diet. They give up everything and they go back to the old way. So there's a transition process. We try and do if they can learn to cook more with vegetables and make it interesting for them. So getting a good vegetarian cookbook and working with that. And simply adding that on. Is the way to go, so ultimately the bottom line is the Mediterranean is the best and we alter that depending on individual interests, yeah.

DB

Yeah. OK. And it's always so much easier to bring the spouse or the family along the journey as. Well, you know.

Dr Soosay

Yes, yes, yeah.

DB

What about any other exercises? I mean, you mentioned resistance exercise. Is there anything else you you suggest to people?

Dr Soosay

Aerobic aerobic exercise is is the other one, but between the two some aerobic, some resistance exercise is the important muscle. Mass is crucial, especially for the people over the six. They they they tend to lose muscle, I think from about the age 40 you lose about 1% of your muscle mass per year. And by 75, I think you'll lose about 40% strength as well. If you don't do anything. And the other common thing is, well, we talked about protein and ketogenic diet. As we're getting older, we need more protein than we were younger. So they say that the, the, the, the average person needs point. Eight of a gramme of protein per kilogram of body weight. But the people over 60 need 1.2 milligram of protein per kilogram body weight. So it's the because we, there's the such thing as anabolic resistance. The body doesn't absorb it. the IT doesn't build muscle with just the protein. But if you have exercise with it. It cuts out the anabolic resistance. So you actually improve and absorb more protein and build up protein and and protein is crucial for as we get older as such.

Speaker

Right.

DB

Especially for our immune system.

Dr Soosay

Yes.

DB

It's it's an interesting conundrum because my experience with patients is as they get older, particularly over 75, their interest in protein diminishes. And I suspect that's because their gut function diminishes.

Dr Soosay

Right. The appetite goes, they don't drink. Eat as much. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

DB

So it's like so if we're going to give them protein just to recap what you were just saying, we've got to do it with the exercise, the right microbiome and make sure other digestive enzymes are on some.

Dr Soosay

Absolutely. Absolutely yes.

DB

The other big issue just to finish up on a bit is around polypharmacy. And polypharmacy is the number of drugs that people take or are given as they get older. The interactions are often unknown. There are some interactions written up, but really there's so much unknown about. The number of.

Dr Soosay

No.

DB

Drugs and certainly I know in the past I've had patients who would come in with. 6 or 8 or 10 or 12 different drugs, one to to to counter the effects of the other one often and and. And you know as as a naturopath myself, I have limited capacity to try to work with the doctor to reduce the.

Dr Soosay

Yes, that's right.

DB

Drugs. But as a doctor, how do you approach a patient who comes in with a shopping basket of drugs? What effect do you think it has on people and how do you deal with it? How do you wean them off this over time?

Dr Soosay

With great difficulty. So the big one. I find that we can win off people is the are the PPI's the the asset suppressants that they take and unfortunately this is something that they just in fact the the. Yeah. Most doctors just keep prescribing them and because. The fact that when they try and stop them, you get a rebound effect. They think that although you've got a problem with this and then they keep them. On it so I can win that win them off that for a start because most of them in their 60s, I actually hypochlorhydria lack of acid, not too much acid but the. The symptoms are the same. Whether you have too much acid, total asset can be the same as similar symptom, so they're mistaken always for too much acid. That is the big one. If I can get rid of that then I can improve the digestive system. That can make a knock on effect.

Speaker

Yeah.

Dr Soosay

From a whole lot of other things.

Speaker

Yeah.

Dr Soosay

Yeah, but in terms of other drugs, like with the with the, with the diabetic type 2 diabetes type, well, we can work with diet if you're prepared to work with diet, we can win them off those those things as well. Blood pressure also if they're losing, if we can get some weight down, we can reduce it or reduce them from three different anti hypertensives. To maybe one or two, we can make a difference that way. So it's about the the, the the prevention of getting their whole help right, we can then wean those things off some drugs you can't get rid of. But in terms of anti inflammatories, we can reduce that you know by again by improving all getting at the root cause of it all these why are they getting all these things? It's because they're that's not good, they're not exercising. And they overweight. So they've got these problems. Let's try and reverse those. And then the we can drop a lot of those drugs.

DB

Yeah, I'm. I'm not sure if you share my experience here, but I found that. Once people start to make some changes, they find the initial part of making changes to diet and lifestyle and some supplements quite challenging sometimes. But once they start to they start to feel really good very quickly and all of a sudden are so motivated to get off as many drugs as they can.

Speaker

Yes.

Dr Soosay

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DB

So motivated to you know, once they start to just because I think people forget what it's like to feel good.

Dr Soosay

Correct, yes. Absolutely yeah. That input just to get that initial sense of feeling. They're better. They're losing a bit of weight or they're exercising and feeling better. Sleeping better makes a big difference and becomes a self reinforcing factor. Yeah, they they start to.

DB

Yeah, yeah. And people start to say to them, oh, you look good. Ohh, you've lost weight. Ohh. It makes a big difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It's been an absolute pleasure. We've all learned so much from you. How do people get in touch with? What are you doing now with yourself?

Dr Soosay

Makes a big difference, yes. Well, I'm. I'm only working one day a week, so I'm not seeing. New patients, right? So my  all my energies are devoted to get me my newsletter going on healthy ageing, which they can.

Speaker

Yes.

Dr Soosay

Contact through my website which is a drIggysoosay.com.au and from there they can get on to my sub stack newsletter. Yes where I'm just. We. To give information to people is how they can slowly change things like I've been just talking about that. I've talked about the Western diet next week. I'm talking about the Mediterranean diet and then also the following week telling, telling younger people how they can transition from a takeout to A to eating a Mediterranean diet, how they can transition out of. Depending on take out field so it's a slow process I'm working with and I'm finding it very satisfying.

DB

Yeah. Look wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you for everything you do. And thank you for today.

Dr Soosay

Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks. Bye. Bye.