Whole person Psoriasis treatment Artwork

a patient story

Natural and Holistic Medicine continues to grow globally for one simple reason..it gets results. We have conversations with patients that have achieved success by using natural medicines and holistic practitioners presenting cases.

Show More

a patient story

Whole person Psoriasis treatment

August 22, 2025 • Daniel Baden ND

All feedback and questions welcome

Psoriasis is a skin condition that can be socially debilitating. About a third of people with psoriasis develop a related form of arthritis which can also be physically limiting. Whilst there are a number of medical interventions that can reduce or control symptoms for some people, they generally have limited success. Psoriasis is a condition that responds best to a holistic approach including the management of diet, stress and microbial balance. In this episode Naturopath Helen Christian will help you to understand the process over a 20 year journey with her client Lista.

Welcome to a patient story everybody. Hello, Helen and hello Litsa. Hi Daniel, this is a really interesting topic for me because we're gonna be talking about psoriasis primarily specifically psoriatic arthritis and it affects. It depends on which study you read, but it does affect up to 8% of the population. That is not insignificant. Some studies say it's down to 1%, but in those countries, it's thought that they don't diagnose and measure and count the number of psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis. Patients like we're doing, they throw them into a rheumatic arthritis basket. In Australia and other countries. We over the last few years particularly have really separated psoriatic arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis and other forms of arthritis as. Well. So that's why you get such a big difference in numbers depending on which research you're reading at that time, about 40% of of psoriasis patients end up with Thoratec arthritis, which is quite a painful condition for a lot of people and it affects the joints and. 20 years ago, Litzer had gone to see Helen, the naturopath with her psoriatic arthritis. And it's amazing story how you got there. So let's say you had had psoriasis since you were about 14 years. Told and you'd spent time going through a lot of the normal treatments that you do through the medical system, putting tar on it, using light therapies, and eventually you also you started using some cortisone creams. Can you talk us through what all that was about and how it worked for you?

Ohh well I was diagnosed I guess officially when I was about 14. So previously my mum tells me they thought it was like an eczema or something because you know I will be. Very lucky to say I'm reaching the age of 60 this year, so you can imagine when I was younger it wasn't as advanced as things are now. I guess they used to ask her to pull Vaseline and things like that on it, but as I got older, as I said 14 he got, I was told. That I had psoriasis. My parents weren't big fans of the steroids and things like that. You know, so they try to find alternative ways to control it because we know it's not something that will ever really go away and they've stumbled upon, I don't know how my parents being immigrants so still amaze me to this very day. They found a trichologist in the city. She was actually behind the town hall. And I used to bust it in, cause we lived in Balmain. I'd catch a bus in and she'd put that tar cream on and the heat therapy, as we said, you know. With the. Lamps. And then I'd go home with this, you know, very horrible smelling, very greasy thick ointment that I put on my scalp. Sleep on. You know. A pillow covered in a towel just to try to control the scaling and that's what it was all about, cause being a teenager too. I guess it started to flare up more, you know, hormones and things and this continued pretty much well. I still have psoriasis predominantly me in my scalp, but it is some like better managed now but as you said. Earlier, a secondary disease to psoriasis is arthritis, which nobody ever told us about. And when I was first diagnosed, as you very correctly said, they used to just pop us in the bucket of rheumatoid arthritis. But it's only recently that they've recognised that it is a slightly different variation to, you know, albeit it is arthritis though, and I didn't find out that I had arthritis or I didn't, you know, developed symptoms of arthritis until I was about 27, which was after, I don't know if it's a coincidental thing or if there's studies. Been done, you know, with hormones and things. After I gave birth to my daughter, my first child.

Yeah, I I don't know if there are studies specifically that way either, but I mean psoriasis is considered to be.

An immune dysfunction and causing rapid cell turnover and look with many diseases where they don't know what the aetiology or the start or the cause of the condition is. They often say oh, it's an immune dysfunction or or autoimmune disease. And I guess that is one way of describing it, but also different ways of looking at that.

So I'll talk to Helen about that in a moment, but yeah, I the hormones may be in effect, but also maybe the lack of sleep and the. Yes, and all the other fun things that come with a new baby as well.

Yes, yes, we'll never really know. Well, maybe one day, but at the moment, yeah.

Yeah. Was it just in your scalp or did you have it in other? Parts of your body as well.

The psoriasis, very little, and even to this very day in the my ear. Sometimes I used to get a tiny bit on my elbows, but I'm very blessed and very lucky. It's quite contained. So like you know, although you know it is there, it's still, you know more manageable than I have heard some poor other people what they go through.

Ohh yeah yeah, I've had some patients. So in my time. That have had psoriasis scaling from head to toe. It's just oh. Awful. And so it's one point and I will get to hell in a second, but at one point you had somehow got to see or had the idea to see a naturopath. How did that happen?

Ohh for about 10 years I was I was seeing a rheumatoid arthritis specialist. And the experience looking back on it was horrible, but I knew no better because, you know, you rely on, you know, the doctors to lead you in the right path to recovery. Or at least, you know, as I was told, you know, you need to take certain. You know, medications and at the time I was taking methotrexate, which I believe is a drug they use to for cancer patients. And then to top it all up, after being under his. Care and I'm not. Look, I'm not poo pooing him at his like the level. You know where he was? He was amazing as a professor, but he wasn't. What? Didn't suit my needs. So instead of me getting better, it was almost like a band aid for me. I was never pain free. And in actual fact, they topped me up with the oral. When I used to take that tablet, it used to burn me from toe to head all the way up through my body. The minute I took it, and that sensation would last for it felt like forever. But you know. Thinking back in time now, maybe a few minutes now, the methotrexate I went from tablets to injecting myself and being a young mum, you know, I had two babies by then. You know, my eldest would have been 9 or 10. And then my little one was Jordan's four years younger. Renee is my daughter. And I one day I just decided that, you know, I I wanna see them grow. I don't wanna die of taking these medicines, cause every month I had to have a blood test so they could monitor my liver. So, you know at first, because I was so busy, I didn't even think about what I wanted, what he was doing to my body, all this medication. I was just taking it in, praying and hoping that I would, you know, be able to function as a young mum who was working, you know, like all most people do, you know? And then I just took myself off. I just. When I asked the doctor what was next and there was no real answer other than a different variety of medications, very strong medications, I just decided there and then that that I had had enough of that world and it took me about two years, maybe longer. Before, I couldn't actually use my hands. I was running a canteen at the time I was managing a school canteen and I couldn't use the can I, Lee, Helen and I. It's Maria, Helen. Yeah. And she said, why don't you go and see my natural path. And that for me, I say it to this very. Day and I am. Gonna cry. It was the best. Decision of my life. So thank you, Helen. Yeah. Helen pulled me on his super strict diet for two years and gave me all these things to take. And it was amazing.

It's interesting that you took yourself off the drugs, including methotrexate, because methotrexate is a very heavy duty drug. And you said quite correctly, it is used in cancer patients, although in cancer they tend to use bigger doses.

Than they do in psoriasis or other forms of arthritis. But you went cold Turkey on it. Did you? Just went straight off it. Wow.

Yeah, I was just done. I just in my head, I was like, I just wanna see my babies grow, you know? And that was it.

Yeah, yeah. And. And did you get like a rebound flare up or anything like that?

Honestly, Daniel, I can't even remember exactly what happened to my body. I was just thinking at the time that this isn't working. I'm not pain free. All the promises that were made, nothing was coming of it and I just thought, well, with or without the, you know, the medications I was functioning the same.

So you know to be very honest with you, I can't remember that far back, but it gradually did get worse. The pain.

Yeah. OK. Helen, when someone comes in to see you with psoriasis, what? What's your understanding of the condition? What are your first thoughts that come in?

My first thoughts are that it's an autoimmune condition where the bodies. Turned on itself. And it's creating this condition. In my mind, there's a lot of inflammation. When Litzer walked, walked, barely walked, dragged herself in that first day I met her. My impression wasn't the psoriasis cause what I could see was just pain. It it was. The arthritis part of it. She had gotten to the point where she could hardly walk. She was supporting herself up a few stairs, and I don't even know if she can remember, but. When you see a lot of people. You can't remember. It's really hard to remember all of them collectively, but there are very few of them that remain seared in your memory. And Lizza was one of those. I remember what she was wearing. I remember how she looked. There was pain all over her face.

He was leaning on the railing and she could hardly walk her. I couldn't believe what I thought she her face was like she was in, like she was a young ish person. But she worked like an old lady. So her whole pattern of that day was pain. And I thought. So when my first impressions were what I saw and that was pain and some kind of arthritic condition, I couldn't see any psoriasis on her when I. Saw her, that came later.

OK. And so when you sat down and went through the the case history with Litzer, was there any red flags that popped up at you?

There were two for me when she sat down and this is me talking in hindsight as well. She was under excruciating stress. Like a lot of stress, she was going through and I hope it's OK that I could talk about it. It's a very. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, it was a terrible, terrible divorce. She was working full time. She was trying to protect her kids. And the other thing that struck out at me, she had really bad gut issues, really bad. She was bloated, she was constipated. She was backed up. What also struck out at me when I litzer spoke to me was. She told me she was oding with Nurofen and masinda all together. She was on heavy duty painkillers. She wasn't sleeping. She said she was tired of being and thinking, and then she was just pushing and pushing and pushing herself. And in hindsight I will say that with flare ups because she's had a few over the years, none ever, ever as bad as in the beginning. Both the arthritis and the psoriasis always flare when she stresses, so that's what jumped out at me. She was the stress I felt was causing this massive flare up. She couldn't even put a sheet on her body. Touching her skin hurt her. She would she hurt to just put your hand on her. So she was really bad.

And do you feel like stress management is part of the remit of the average naturopath? Do you think naturopaths deal with stress management well for patients?

I think they definitely do, and they definitely should because that was one of the a very big part of what? We did with elixir, yeah.

So which direction do you go in with stress? Is it? Is it kind of down the meditation pathway, the herbs, the nutrients, the combination of all of those things?

It depends on the patient. So with the lid so I I did a combination the first time she came, I gave a bark flowers and they eventually got her onto. Homoeopathy. Although I did treat her crudely as well, she needed help. She needed help with a gut, the autoimmune stuff needed to be addressed, and I gave her herbs for that hemidesmosomes. Switches it off without switching off the whole body, so I. I treated her for both in that first consult. She let's has become. A very sort of mindful Zen person, but that's not how she was she. She was in the go. Go, go, go, go. Mode had no concept of. Looking inwardly at what what led her to this flare up, where her body was, so it was just talking to her and in the in the old days when we studied, you had to do the counselling you had to do compulsory 2 years of counselling. Yeah. And I felt that was really important and I did more later. So I used all of that in the first appointment. It was a very. Eye opening appointment for Litsa because she came in wanting me to help. Her keep going. She she didn't. She just wanted to keep going. She wanted to deal with her divorce. Keep working with the kids. I I had to really deal with the physicals as well as the mentals there. So, yeah, I gave her homoeopathy and I gave her bachs (bach flower essences). And I spoke to her.

Let's when you went to see Helen, did you have any expectations of what a naturopath was about?

Ohh look, I knew that alternative medicine had come leaps and bounds over the years. I had only ever touched I think I'd seen a homoeopath many, many, many years before I'd seen Helen, but that was to do with my first divorce was. Was horrible. This was my second one that I went through with Helen and I just needed someone almost like a counsellor, and someone had led me to them. But by this time was a long time later and I knew. That if you did follow instruction, the care would be better with Helen. I've never met Helen before, but like I said, I love Helen and she knows what she's doing. So when you listen to Helen, she does heal you. And I have been to Helen, not just for my arthritis psoriasis. And my gut is. But I go for a reset. She deals with my mental health on occasion. Not that I'm saying there's something like just to, you know, ground me or just to bring me back to centre. So going to see her. It is a whole body like body, mind and soul for me. So she dealt with every issue. Not just I had walked in because I had psoriasis, arthritis and as Helen said, I couldn't lift the sheet off myself. I I just wanted to keep functioning cause there's so much to do in life and I will still remember Helen. I don't know if you remember this, but a few years later. You said to me a lot of people don't achieve as much as you do and to this very day I I think. But I'm just doing what I have to do. I still don't understand. But when you step back and. You have a. Look, you think? Yeah. I have done a lot, which is great that I was able to do it because I got the help that I needed.

How do you know when you need a reset?

Ohh my God, it's just the weirdest thing. Daniel, I I can't even explain it. I just have this feeling and I think I need to get. I need to see. No one, and it happens. I'll either go there and we'll deal with, like, right now, we're dealing with my gut issues. There'll be other times where I just need to go and have a good cathartic cry, and she'll just we'll have a chat or she'll give me something, you know, in relation to my arthritis or psoriasis. So it's an ongoing journey.

But it's been the best journey in my of my life when it comes to self care.

Yeah. Good. Helen, there are a few words there which which I think and that you and I might agree on, but were you really interested in your? Opinion. And that's the relationship between stress, gut issues and autoimmune disease, especially around, you know, the effects that stress has on things like the microbiome. What are your thoughts around that?

Definitely. There's never been a person that's walked in where that they're. Not related ever.

And. There's never been a person that's walked in where when you deal with it holistically like that, that they don't find. Some help and get better.

It always works. It's very related very much.

Yeah, because I I mean over the years I feel and and I'm looking for support here, Helen, but I feel that autoimmune conditions are more and more associated with the human microbiome, the little bacteria that live in our gut as they represent 70 to 80% of our immune system. And so it's always interesting to me that when a patient like that's it comes in and they're diagnosed with an autoimmune condition, they're given a drug like methotrexate or some other drug. To suppress what has been called an angry or overactive immune system, whereas the naturopathic approach is more about saying, well, the immune system is out of balance, it starts in the gut. How can we fix the gut? And that's, I guess, the main difference between. What natural natural medicine is about, and what orthodox medicine is about? Do you feel that's the same for you?

Definitely. With the with the gut, for example, with lips as she came in. Very constipated.

There was a lot of back up so there would have been a lot of inflammation from the gut. And other people have the opposite when they have autoimmune conditions, they might have really bad diarrhoea. They have IBS type of symptoms. There's dysbiosis there. Yeah. As soon as you start correcting all of that and it's, it's not you give a pill and it's corrected. You have to address the diet, what they're eating, what they're drinking, how they can help themselves in that regard. There, there's there's an immediate response physically.

You can be very lucky and stumble across a remedy or or or a capsule or a herb that gives the person quite amazing relief very quickly. But to me that's from my experience. That's quite rare, and it does as you just said, take some work. So what sort of diet did you consider? For letzer.

Well, there's already research a lot of research and there was then as well. Not as much as there is now on autoimmune conditions generally. Overseas doctors have trialled many different things and the agreement is that taking people off. And starches and especially gluten will help them. So I introduced that to litza and it was an introduction because Litzer was hitting these foods heavily, it was it's, it's always been difficult to get litter off with starches and dairy so. When there's a reset, as she said, it's often how to reset that. To get her better.

They they just for the listeners, what is, what is the starch? Can you give me a couple of examples what? The starch might look like.

So a starch is a form of carbohydrate. It's like it breads your cakes, your pastas, your rices, your white potatoes, things that will break down to glucose very quickly. The more processed they are, the more inflammatory they're going to be to the body. There's a whole different class of. Starches that include gluten, which in itself by itself has its own set of problems that the biomedical model and biomedical doctors have found if they remove just even that. Then there's a resolution to a lot of the autoimmune conditions. Even if you don't take out all the other starches. However, the best results are when you can remove the majority of them. So you still give people carbohydrates in the terms in terms of fruits, vegetables, salads, you just remove the starches and specifically the. Gluten gliding type of starch.

Yeah. OK. So take out the starches, the glutens, the dairy. Anything else that comes out.

Well. Blitzer had told me that she'd never been a drinker, but with all her stress, she had started drinking just to help her cope. Which? Which you know it's she's not on any other drugs to help or any other medication. So she was doing that. I needed to sort of adjust that for her. Her gut was out of whack. It's not good for the gut. So I really needed to speak to her about that.

Yeah, was let's fairly open to significant dietary changes. She's a starch. Well, it's hard to break that habit. So how open were you, Lisa?

Well, Rice makes everything nice as I picked on. So that's been her biggest battle. But the day she said to me it, you know, like you can get off cocaine quicker than you get off rice. And I was like, what the hell, what's going on? In my life right now. So I think it took a very long time for me to eat less rice and I'll, I'm very honest with Helen. I still eat rice, but not every day. So that's been huge. So I'm very proud of that. Thank you, Helen, and thank you for, you know, supporting me in my.

Journey you're greatly such. She was in so much discomfort. That. It's it did exactly what I said for quite a long time, and so she was, yeah, two years, which since then she's never done it fully and completely, which is fine. But she was. She had so much happening in her life, and her body was just not going there, that she said I'll do anything. And she did it.

I was really proud of her. She stopped everything. She had a headache for a while because she was so addicted to. It but that. Eventually went away, so her journey was a slower one for him. My clinic? Yeah. It took her from. I've got all my notes. It took her from about April till October. Till she saw her life and her body and her world differently, it took about. Six months or something to get her living cause she really, really wasn't living. She was existing, working, doing, but she was doing it in this body of pain. I I I just. Didn't know how she was doing it, but she. Did it and then she came off. So yeah, she didn't want to. She she argued and complained. But then she did it. So.

Yeah, you gave litter some beautiful tasting herbs. I heard her describe it on her show as a black liquid or.

Something or other? What sort of herbs would you use and what was the purpose of of the herbs that you gave her?

I gave the herbs for her autoimmune condition, so there's research on specific herbs like hemidesmosomes, which I use a lot for. Any order on immune condition? It's really well known to switch off the bad part of the immune system, so it will stop the body attacking itself. I also put in I and some people do this and some people don't. I put in some echinacea in there because I wanted the good part of her immune system to balance itself. I put things in there for her adrenals, of course, for her stamina. Corydalis Romania. I put in Ginger for her gut. And that's all I put in there and I. Left her on those herbs. Every single time she came. If she needed a refill, I just left her on them till she got better and she took them every day.

So. About half of our listeners are health professionals of some sort doctors or naturopaths. So is the purpose of the herbal combination to modulate pro inflammatory versus anti-inflammatory cytokines and modulate human necrosis factor? Is that where we're heading with this combination?

Well, yes, it when I gave them to it, so there wasn't as much research as. There is now.

I just knew that the research that was there specifically for autoimmunity would stop all the inflammation that was happening to her hemidesmosomes also quite anti inflammatories. It would give her some relief and I explained to her that these herbs wouldn't work within two weeks. It would take about a month or two. Yeah. And that she would have to just keep drinking them. So yes, it did all of the anti inflammatory stuff it did. All the things that you would expect, the drugs that are out there to do, but they just have so many side effects that they can't do them properly.

Yeah. I was gonna ask, do you see? And in in Liz's case as an example, maybe even generally, do you think heavy drugs like methotrexate complicate your work? Do you think they? I mean, they have a known impact on the liver and the kidneys. It's they have to get tested every month as you know, but also some impact on the microbiome. Do you think that makes your job harder when people come in and do you have a programme? To detoxify people from drugs like that or is that just part of the course of what you do?

It depends on the person. Yeah, some people come and they are. They stay on the drugs. They're not gonna come off the drugs. You just have to work around them. So.

You would give. If the liver enzymes are out, you would give herbs to treat the liver and get the liver back to normal. If the kidneys are out. You would give kidney and adrenal restoratives to make sure the blood tests are back to normal and you would definitely treat. If they're not on the methotrexate, there's other ones as well. Now, there's even stronger ones if they've come off those then. I would very quickly get in there to stop the condition recurring as soon as they come off it and also support the gut, the detox. I don't put them on a heavy duty detox, it makes them sick, so it would be through the diet. Using things like chlorophyll, making sure the liver and the kidneys and all the channels of elimination are open, but they're gonna respond like it is a detox cause they're off all the breads. They're off all the starches. They're off all the cows, dairy. And they're eating a lot more plants. So it's it's kind of like a detox, but not really the body. Has an amazing capacity to regenerate itself, so once you you give the body what it needs, it can do it. You don't have to. Put them on. A heavy duty detail, no? I wouldn't. It makes them sick.

No. Yeah, I agree. When people come in and you're putting them through a, you know, just assisting the body to. Come back to its normal self. Do you just wait to listen to the patient's symptoms as they present on the next visit and or are you also asking them to do further blood tests to measure liver enzymes and various markers for kidney damage as well?

It depends if they come in with the bloods and there's issues there, then I I dress them straight away.

If they've been on the drug for a very long time and some people will just go on the drug and just go on their merry way and haven't had blood tests, believe it or not, for ages, I might call some. In. Yeah, just to make. Sure that I'm on the right track cause you can't give every single thing you wanna give to everybody. It's too much stuff. Gotta know where to. Pitch your treatment. With Lisa, I waited till she came back to see where to go. So I gave the basic stuff for a gut, gave her stuff for, gave her the herbs, grown chlorophyll. Gave her some ointment for her head cause and gave officials basically. And she and I gave her glucosamine chondroid. And because the joints were quite bad. Put it on some barks made her do a jumping bowl cleanse, which she wasn't.

Do a what? Sorry.

A jumping bowel cleanse. The monks do it. So she. It's you. It's this hot water detox and you jump up and down and it makes you. Go to the toilet so.

Hey, I said. I'm not going to let you off the hook that easily, I. Need more details? So, so talk me through it. What is a jumping bell? I I've never. Heard of it?

Well, you know how how? You know the rebound is people say if you get on the rebounder and jump. Up and down. It'll help you to go. It's similar to that, but we really needed to clear her out. She she. She got an X ray and she was so backed up. So uncomfortable, nothing was working.

I don't know what she'd taken, but it was. Not working, so the jumping bowel cleanse the monks do it if they're constipated. I made her heat up. Warm up a jug of water and I said to her, don't leave the house. I said you have to stay at home until you're completely finished emptying. Because if you leave the house, you're gonna be running. For a. Toilet. OK, so I said to her. Drink as much as you can out of that jug. And if you can't drink anymore, just start jumping and counting. You're going to try and get to 1000 jumps, so she started. You just sort of not big jumps. You just sort of bounce. Up and down.

Up and down. Eventually you bow. Starts to move and you have to go to the toilet and I said. And when you go, you come back and you keep drinking till you can't drink any more out of that job and you keep jumping till you get to 1000 jumps. That's a jumping ball cleanse. It never not works.

And may I interrupt very quickly. So my children, sorry.

One topic my children, they love to travel and when they come back we do that together every time because when they were young, when, because now they're old enough they do what they wanted to do. But I would do it with them to make sure that they did it and we've. Never forgotten that. Yep.

OK. So Lisa, talk me through it, if you don't mind talking about #2. You you drink the hot, the warm water. You started doing your thousand jumps and then what happen?

Yeah. Well, you never get to 1000. You never get.

No, no, I I I think I would lose count very quickly, but what's the first thing that happens to you? Do you start to get any just a sensation of needing to go or do you start to get bowel?

That's your goal. Cramping or, well, there's no cramping. It's not discomfort. You just. You feel like you're going to get some sort of relief, and I know it's not a topic everyone loves. To talk about. But I Helen knows, because I've told I never feel empty and I do go regularly lately. It's.

Now, yeah, yeah. No, no. Now, you know, the consistency changes, I guess with different things that I'm taking. Whatever. Back, back then, when Helen told me about that, it was like, well, this is so not intrusive. I don't know what the proper word is, but like, it can't hurt me to do this. And I'm a fan of warm water. A lot of people don't like warm water, and that's why I think Helen. Correct me if I'm wrong here and you say to start off with, you know, small amounts of water, so you don't overwhelm yourself and wanna vomit. Whereas I don't get that. So I could quite easily drink, you know, half of a glass. And then when you start to jump up and down, it becomes like a game. But then when you get some relief, well, you know, you're a winner because you're feeling that relief as well.

And like I said, every time my children travel, we used to do it. It was we started off as just a game and as a joke, but they really saw the benefit of doing it. So we've never forgotten that trick.

Well, that's why I love talking to Helen. Because she. As she reads so much, she brings so many interesting things to the table.

Yeah. Thank you.

Well, you know it, it doesn't get boring and there's something for everyone in that.

Yeah, absolutely, Helen. Do you change Litsa's diet? We we talked about the herbs and the purpose of the herbs. Did you use any supplements or probiotic capsules as well?

Yeah, definitely. I put it straight on probiotics, like a broad spectrum one to start with gave us some chlorophyll.

Put her on essential fatty acids , and then glucosamine chondroitin Litsa wasn't used to taking anything, so I have to be careful how much I gave her. I thought I was.

Pushing my luck with all of that, let's say, how did she go after the first couple of visits? Can you talk me through any changes to symptoms or even mental health?

I look, look, thinking back now, cause you know, as I said you. Know nearly 60 she. I forget what my name is half the time, but I do. You know, I can definitely say that, you know, like Helen said, it didn't happen overnight. But by the time I saw her and Helen gets. You what I love about you. Alan, I shouldn't talk like you're not in the room, is you always give us that option to ring you whenever we want to. It's not just. I'll see you at the next visit in a month. But because I knew that with you know the the way that naturopath medicine works is that it's a gradual and then it builds up in your body and then it stays. You know, as long as you maintain whatever your body needs and you're taking the supplements or taking the herbs or, you know, eliminating, you know, any foods that are causing, you know, the inflammation. Pain. You will see a grade end result and I can say that within that first month that I saw Helen, I was already seeing that. So why wouldn't I stay on it? And that's why for two years. And I think it really did reset my body. Guys, I feel that ever since then. Thank it. It's like I'm so grateful. I feel that I just need every now and then like a reset because I've never. And I pray that I never go back to that stage even though I'm not as strict. Definitely not as I used to be. But I'm very mindful. Of. What I'm putting in my body, and I know that how I will react. So I think twice now before I go ahead with something before I actually put it in my body, as in something that might hurt it. So all those lifeless, it wasn't just that Helen gave me. You know something to drink or eliminate something from my diet. Helen genuinely does want you to heal. I truly believe that with all my heart. I think for, you know, for someone like me, knowing that someone's in your, you've got the best cheerleader, best cheerleader. You can't. You can't fail. Feel that's how I look at.

Yeah, I'm just going to jump in there. I was really worried about Litzer. I was really worried about her having a reaction to what I gave her. She was really not well. So I made her come back in two weeks. I've got my notes in front of me, so I I don't know if she remembers, but she came back two weeks later, her bloating. Was already better. And she was going to the toilet. Her pain. And it was still there. There wasn't that much change in the pain in two weeks, but she got some relief and felt some changes in her gut, which is the 1st place that the change started.

And what about overall energy levels? Let's say, how did you go?

When the pain starts to go, when you don't realise that that's what your life is like. You're just so used to the pain, your energy level naturally increases, so you can do like things that you wanted like that I wanted or had to do and not having to worry about the pain so. It just became now my new way of life, and it was just amazing. I I can't even put it in words like the transition wasn't overnight, but the transition was so amazing that all of a sudden you thought, wow, I can do twice as much now.

Yeah, it was mentioned earlier that when you went to see Helen, you had enjoyed using a bit of nurofen and mazindol and those sorts of drugs. How much were you using? How long did it take you to get off them? If if you are dead off?

Ohh yeah, no I don't take any painkillers anymore unless I really have to, which is very rare. The only reason why I combine the 2 is because I was getting headaches and pain from arthritis and my then doctor had said ohh yeah, just piggyback the two together. You know you'll be fine. They'll help again. Another band aid situation. Yeah, definitely not ideal for the body, but you do what you what your doctor tells you, right?

Sure. And you were taking several doses a day or just one of those?

Ohh at least morning and night. So we're talking about, you know, 2 lots of mercantil 2 lots of nurofen, sometimes mercen doll night just to you know. Just to sleep. Because I was, I've never been a good sleeper though, and that's OK. I don't mind that. I get a lot done so. But you know, it wasn't ideal. And at the time. I didn't even. Think twice about it. That's what you did.

Sorry, how were you? So.

So I can say that within a month at the one month mark, so the third appointment, Litzer said she was hardly taking the masinda role and the nurofen and she was also sleeping a lot better. So within a month. She was in it. Her pain was so much less that she she had reduced them markedly. She was. Hardly taking them.

Fantastic. Yeah.

So it's it's slow, but not that that slow.

Yeah, because your friend has some negative impact on the gut as well. And when you're trying to, you know, help someone's restore someones microbiome or leaky gut, it's it's, it's a tough one to get around.

Yeah. And she was sticking to the diet, which she was amazed about. The other thing that Litzer likes to eat a lot of.

Is ice cream, which has got the carrageenan

It's delicious.

In it and. It ruins the gut, so she had told me at the third appointment she wasn't eating any, which was amazing.

you remind me of a 60 year old child sometime. Arms.

Well, thank you.

Helen mentioned ice cream. Your face just lit. Up.

Welcome to my universe.

OK, so where did we go from here after, after you know, several months of treatment, did you change the formula very much? Helen, did you have to change the diet very much the supplements?

No, I just felt I introduced some B vitamins was the only thing I did different. Some methylated bees and I left everything else the same.

Her litter, her, her. Everything was getting better, but her energy wasn't 100%, so I gave. I gave it to some bees and then her energy really picked up. She was doing really well after that, so everything else stayed the same. The diet was the main thing. I felt the counselling.

For her. The barks and also the homoeopathy helped her a lot. Headaches went away as well. All the pain just kind of disappeared.

Yeah. OK. Fantastic. And all of this happened 20 years ago. Let's how the last few years been. Do you get flare ups of psoriasis or any other issues?

Ohh look I've I've flare up here and there. Yes, but not something that I can't manage. Definitely not. Our main focus for me anymore, my psoriasis and my arthritis, my psoriasis probably more so than my arthritis because it is on my scalp and you know with the humidity and the changes in the weather, it affects it my like I I can't like. I used to go to the gym every day lift weights. My God, I've moved the house 20 times. It feels like, like, you know, like I'm not limited anymore. I can use a can opener. Believe me. You know, that's what led me to Helen. All these things that are everyday things I don't. It's very rare. Well, go ohh that. You know not to. I'm not saying that it's 100% gone, but it's very rare that I'll say, Oh my God, my hand hurts because of my arthritis, which is amazing now. And I'm guessing we'll get to it. Sorry if I'm jumping ahead is my main focus. Now is my gut because as you can imagine, all those years of abuse.

With all the different things that I put in my body. But we've we've come such a long way that now I saw Helen today in fact. And you know the last couple of visits have been that's been my main focus.

So this is the irritable bowel syndrome. That's the major.

Well, yeah, we're thinking is. That just now a diagnosis that they just tell you cause they don't know what it is and not not Helen. You. Know the others and that now maybe it's something a little bit.

You know something a little bit different. So Helen will talk to Helen explains everything to me. But I say to, well, look, I don't read the bottle. I just need you to tell me what to do. Just please. I I have so much trust and faith in you. Just tell me what I need to do. But hell, I'll explain it to you with Helen words, not so speak.

Yeah. OK. I just one quick one, a little before I go to Helen. Are the main symptoms more around Constipation and difficulty or around loose bowel motions and?

No, it's not. It look like I said, I go every single day. The consistency does change of the. You know, cool. Yeah. The stool. Thank you. But I never feel empty and I get I'm very bloated and I have a lot of pain in my in my gut.

OK, Helen, what do you think's going on there?

What I spoke to Lisa today and I explained to her what I felt was happening. I I feel that because it's a. Not not judging at all, but can't stick to not having gluten gliding the the dairy. The things that affect her. It's irritated the gut and it irritates the gut. I think it's pretty much a like similar to an allergic response because when Blitzer comes for a reset, she does everything perfectly and all the symptoms go away. The bloating goes away, the pain goes away. Everything goes away, and then it was really interesting. These holidays. We did a channel. Took her off all the chocolate and then gave her some and she has no threshold. Immediately there was pain. Some people's threshold is different sometimes. They can have. A little bit and then then they're OK. If they have a bit too much, there's pain 2 days or three days later after having it every day. It's it's immediate. So I feel what's going on is that her her gut is constantly irritated, whether it's been disturbed because of all the drugs that were needed to be. Given to her. Or whatever it is, it's it's an irritation. So we've gone down that track this. Time I I. They. You know, she was better up until the holidays where she. Started eating everything. Again, and then the stomach hurt and there was bloating. And there was pain again.

Yeah. So you're taking mainly A dietary approach. Are you adding any different supplements or herbs to that?

That's why. All I've had to yes, because you have to work with the person. Liz is like she said, very honest. And she's she'll tell you that she can't stick to it fully. So then we've agreed that I'm going to up my auntie and give her. A different type of probiotic that has particular strains in it and also give her three powders to line the gut and heal it and net it back together and coated so that she has less symptoms when she does break the diet. So we're. We're going down that way and Liz's not. Very good with also. She hasn't said it, but taking stuff as soon as she's better, she comes off everything and she's actually amazingly well for ages. But we've agreed that she will take the powders. It's just a drink every day and she will take the particular type of probiotic that I want her to have, which is in the fridge and she'll go and get it out because we really do want to fix the gut. That's the last thing to do now. Yeah, and. But well, and give it to her every single day because she will break the diet. There's no way she won't.

Yeah, and. And let's how are you managing stress? How do you feel your levels of stress are and how you're managing them these days?

Roche has been my saviour.

I crochet 24/7 when I'm not working or managing the house or doing my chores it just I just. Love it? It's a form of meditation for. Me. Yeah. So that's how I believe I'm managing it.

For the listeners, I can see a little crocheting away as we're talking right now and making some beautiful things, but I can see how freely your hands and fingers are moving with relation to how conversation about the arthritis as well. So yeah, that's quite well for you. So where to from here? Helen, let's so what's what's, what's happening? Helen, where do we go from here?

It's a is a long term patient. As I said before and as we know. She just comes in and out whenever she she feels she needs it. I've treated all her family. I've treated the dog. I've treated her kids. Her partner. Yeah. Her improvement as a person by by 6 months from the beginning of when she started.

At the six month mark, I called in, Bloods did the whole. Work up everything and she said I have 90% improved as a person, so she's on a different journey to where she was. She was actually. She's actually a business woman. I know she's crocheting now, but she has all these businesses that she was doing making all this money. She was on this very different.

Road to life. So where to from now, Felicia? I'm not sure. I can't believe she's sitting there crocheting the person I met. And up until recently, it's been a really long journey for her. She's become very introspective, very meditative. Very. It's like she's gone off grid.

And she was really hooked into that grid. So where for her? Wherever she wants to take it, I guess for me, I just, you know, whenever she comes and goes, it's whatever she needs.

I love your approach, Helen. If people need or want to get in touch with you, how do they do that?

I never advertise cause I like to keep a low profile. Yeah, but via my. Mobile phone or my email address. Everybody's word of mouth. So yeah, no one really ever comes. Unless someone else has sent them. And so, yeah, anybody's welcome to come. But my mobile or my email address.

Yeah. And do you have a social media?

No. Like, I like to fly under the radar, although I'm going to. I've just made a product that I've just signed off on for.

Cholesterol balance. And I'm going to have to do. I'm really nervous. I'm going to have to have a profile. So that'll be coming whether I like it or so.

Yeah. Well, I know that your product has had some enormous success with people that are struggling with cholesterol management, and I wish you every luck with that and you deserve it because it's, you know, it's it sounds like it's been pretty amazing so. So, well done. Let's. I've watched your Coco crochet. Is it YouTube on YouTube? It's fantastic.

Yeah, on YouTube, that's us. Yep. Well, everyone is welcome to join that Yanni family as well.

So could you just could you just give us the the YouTube address or I'm not really sure how you advertise on YouTube, what's it called?

So it's Cocos Coco. Is my the love of my life, my best friend, my dog? So it's Coco apostrophe S, so Coco's crochet CROCHET.

And that's the YouTube channel and I encourage everyone to have a look at it because you are so natural and so beautiful.

You know, actually, I watched a bit of it and I I dragged my wife and I said I have a look at this. This is so nice. And she said, yeah, it is.

So well done, well done. Well, guys. I love the story. I love the success you've had. It's obviously been incredibly life changing for you and embracing natural medicine really is not just taking medicines. It really is understanding and thinking about what you put in your mouth and how you live your. Life and all these things so. You've embraced it as much as you want to, except for the ice cream thing. But.

No, no. Helen knows that I need it every night anymore.

Oh, that's good.

And I've got and I've got a dairy free alternative. I listen to Helen

OK, good. Helen, always love your wisdom. And I learned a few new things from you myself today, so I'm grateful and guys, thank you. It's been wonderful.

Oh, thank you. It's lovely, lady. And you. Bye. Bye.