Medicinal Cannabis Addiction

Medicinal cannabis is hot in the media and the business community. With the rush to market is there enough education of  and understanding by health professionals? Naturopath Zoe Turner works in a multidisciplinary centre (Salt Recovery) which supports clients trying to break their addiction to prescribed and non-prescribed cannabis. We are joined by her client Bailey to better understand the issue first hand. With the rising concern of mental health issues together with the growing number of medicinal cannabis prescriptions this is not an episode to miss.

Transcript

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Zoe Turner, how are you? Very good, thank you. On this lovely rainy day. And hello to you, Bailey. How are you, mate? Hello. Good, thank you very much. Okay, well, thank you both so much for joining me today. We're going to talk about cannabis and cannabis addiction and how we get through it. Bailey was kind enough and. And brave enough to come on and just discuss his story. And Zoe assisted Bailey as a naturopath practitioner to help him get through the addiction. Bailey, how old were you when you first had your first smoke or if that's how you used cannabis? I was about 15 years old. Okay, and just with a bunch of friends or just something you thought you'd try yourself? It was just something by myself I thought I'd try. Okay. As I guess as you're younger, you decide to go adventure and do silly things. The first time you tried it, how did it make you feel? It felt pretty good. Felt like I was on a cloud nearly. I was laying in bed, felt like I was floating. Nothing visual. Just felt really good, felt calm and. Yeah. Is that. Were those feelings different to what you were going through at that time of your Life? I mean, 15 can be a, you know, reasonably rocky time for some people. No, I felt. I felt quite good with my life at 15. I was a little bit lost. A little bit lost. And had a friend that recommended it to me that was in a higher grade at school. So then that's when I got off him. Tried it. After you tried it, how long was it until you had the second smoke? Was it smoke? Is that how you used it? Yeah, yeah. It was probably about another two weeks until I had another one. Over time, was that use just increasing or in frequency? Yes, slowly. It did pick up over time. It didn't. It didn't. I wouldn't say it picked up dramatically till I was about 16, 17 years old. That's when I really picked up on it. Why do you think that happened at that age? Any idea? I think it was more just a bit of social anxiety at school. My family at home was quite good. I think that felt a bit disconnected from friends at school. I was never a good learner at school. Yep. So I think that as a way of connecting with other people at school, I thought it was a good idea to smoke. And did it help for the first bit? It did. It did definitely help at the first bit. But then after a while I was looked down on by peers and other. Other people I was surrounded by. You should say that actually about when you first started doing it because, you know, they do say that for acute stages, that THC and CBD is actually very good, but long term use, it can kind of flip the other way. Yeah, yeah, it did a lot for me in my depressive parts of my years. But with the medical cannabis in Australia, the tolerance, I guess builds up and builds up and then to the point where you just find yourself addicted to it. I'll get back onto that in a second. But Zoe, you just said something, it flips over. What do you think possibly is the mechanism of it flipping over? Do you have any thoughts around that? Well, I think that in the beginning it actually helps dopamine, but then I think after long term use it actually like dampens dopamine down and it starts to have like the opposite effect. I would say, you know, psychosis, maybe feeling social anxiety, not wanting to go out anymore, problems sleeping, things like that. So from your experience, Zoe, does that mean people, because they're not getting the same hit, for one of a better word, from smoking, that they try to use more or a stronger grade, would that be the next logical step for a lot of people? I think it probably would be the next logical step for most people. The thing is, is that the medicinal cannabis that is being sold is, it's not the same as the natural product. I think that there's a lot higher grades of THC and I think that could be quite disruptive long term for people. What do we call long term? What would you say, Bailey, how in your experience, when did you start noticing a difference? I think the first two, two and a half years of smoking, your mind state changes from this is something that helps me to something that distracts me from working or distracts me from going out. So I think the three, four year mark is when I would consider a long term thing, depending on how frequent you are smoking. But like you did say, Zoe, that the tolerance and the need for a higher THC content will rapidly increase. Bailey, when you started to notice a change at three and a half to four years, what were the first or early symptoms that you felt that were different, particularly in your mental health? I decide, well, I found myself having a bit more depression than I usually would and a little bit more stress, definitely eating a lot less. They do say that cannabis helps with appetite, but I think that is wrong. There is research that does say that it will make you lose your appetite over time. And I found myself losing a lot of weight that I needed instead of putting any weight on. So just so I've got it right, you, you went from Buying cannabis from, let's say the street to then going to prescribed cannabis. Is that what happened?

Yeah, yes, through a telehealth appointment they would prescribe it and it only took 2: 6:02

00, maybe 48 hours until they could send me out a prescription for it. And was the initial change from the commonly available stuff to the prescribed stuff very obvious to you straight away? Yes, definitely it is, yeah. How is that difference? Is it the taste, the smell or the. Or the reaction it has on you? I think the availability of able to get it so frequent from the doctor, as well as being medical cannabis in Australia, their lower potencies would be similar to what they would be on the street. So the higher potencies they have would be something closer to what they'd have over in America, something that's very, very potent. Okay, yeah. And they are showing in the. The research now that, that. That that high dose of THC is causing blunting of the dopamine system. Yeah, the research. If you're taking a product that's from the street, that's more natural, I guess, in its growth, that's a balance of THC and cbd. Do you think that that limits the adverse effect over time? You know, do you think it's the high thc, low or no CBD that has more deleterious effect with time? Or do you think that balance counteracts that to some degree? I think that low CBD products with no. With high THC is not very effective and has a big play on people's mental health later on down the track. And I think that it definitely will decrease mental health. I think the higher CBD products with no THC in it are more of a safe alternative for those that are wanting still to consume. But most of the medical cannabis that is supplied is mainly high THC with really low cbd. And Zoe, from your experience, have you seen similar patterns in other people that have come to you who are on cannabis? Yes, I have, specifically with the prescribing of thc, because they can get such high availability of that thc. Yeah. And I've noticed, you know, the unpleasant side effects of that. You know, people becoming paranoid anxiety, rare cases of psychotic episodes, including hallucinations and delusions. So, Bailey, at what stage did you feel that you had a problem with it, an addiction problem with cannabis? Well, it probably started when I was about 19 years old, maybe even 18, where I was going through more cannabis than what the doctor would prescribe. But unfortunately in Australia, the doctors are quite unknowledgeable in their cannabis at the moment. So they are and willingly prescribing people more than that's necessary for people. So I found that when I was asking the doctors for more dosage, higher dosages, more quantity of it, I found that it was becoming a problem. And about four months ago I realized that it really had to. I had to stop smoking it and consuming it as it was making me feel very lethargic, a bit angry in the mornings when you're coming down off it. And if you didn't want to be angry in the morning, you'd have to top yourself up with more cannabis to feel better. So, yeah, I think about four, four months ago is when I made the big decision that it wasn't for me anymore. And it definitely changed my mind that it's not a, a good plant. There are some good things in it like cbd, but I think the high doses of THC is very harmful. Yes, I agree. Why do you think the prescribed materials are high in thc? I mean, where does that thinking come from? Well, I think that they're just looking to get a really great, what they believe is a really great product out there to solve the problems of people with mental health, but it's having the opposite effect. So they've taken a natural plant and they've decided to, I don't know what they think, maybe make it better, but it's actually maybe lost its effect with the increase. Because the prescribed materials, from my understanding, are available in either capsules or liquid, I think, or you can actually even just buy the heads of the plants in a, in a little jar. Yes. The flower. The flower, yeah. So. And you can choose whichever one you want. Can you, to start off? They like to be safe. I'm not sure if it's a law thing or the doctors want to, you know, test you on a few different products, but they like to start you out on a CBD oil before they try you on a flower. They do have more potent variations now, which is a THC cartridge, which is a vape. So you can screw that into a, like a battery type thing and you can vape pretty much pure thc. So they start you off on a CBD but they're progressing you to a THC heavy product. Yeah. How could you possibly have the same effect going? Because they're very different acting chemicals. Well, sometimes they like to convince you into a high CBD and a low THC where you wouldn't feel the effects like an oil, like just a normal oil you would drop on your tongue. And then most patients, they wouldn't feel any effects from cbd, as CBD doesn't give you any effects apart from mildly being a bit relaxed. And the THC in it would be so low, would be unnoticeable. So the patient would just tell the doctor, you know, I'm not feeling anything. And then the doctor would step it up a notch with high THC. Very interesting, because 20 years ago, the average THC content of confiscated marijuana would be about 4%, and in 2018, it's gone up to 15%. So that's almost triple. So, you know, researchers don't know the full extent of the high concentration of thc. Yeah. The effects it's going to have on the body, brain, and especially a developing brain as well, you know? Absolutely. Zoe, have you seen people that have had significant mental health issues as adults and have been given these sorts of substances? And I understand that high thc, low CBD products over time can cause depression, anxiety, panic attacks, et cetera. But if somebody comes to you with some sort of severe depression or severe anxiety and they give them thc, what happens? Well, in some cases it can be in an acute stage, it can be, you know, great, but long term, like Bailey was saying, the increase in need is there, and then we get that change, the brain change is beginning to occur. You know, Bailey, you recognized that your health was at risk and this particular plant, marijuana, wasn't right for you. What was your next step? My next, My next step would be seeing a psychologist for my mental health and to see Zoe for the right, right medicine to get my health back on track. And I think coming down off it is definitely the hardest part. But I think the. The first 10 days would be the hardest where your body really wants that THC back when you've canceled it out of your body. And I find that, with Zoe's help, that it was really helpful. And I'm able to think normally and sleep better now and eat. Eat a lot more than I usually would ever. I think you're an amazing person because a lot of people, especially at that age, when wouldn't have the ability or capacity to understand that they need to fix themselves and would just keep going with the drug. I'm interested in understanding what your absolute drivers were for change. I think my main. My main driver was that I was being too lethargic and I was being too lazy. My mood wasn't right. I felt after a while, there's a bit of. I've done a bit of research on it, and you can feel A bit of. You lose a bit of touch to reality and you feel, you know, you know, is this real or is it fake or is, you know, is it. Am I all living in a vivid dream of some sort after a while of high consumption? And for a while I was kind of stuck in that vivid dream type feeling and a bit of living in a bit of fake reality thinking that, you know, the doctors and scientists say that cannabis is healthy for you and it does good things. And I think after a while, I realized that my mental health was only worsening. And I got to the point where I was on the highest dosages on the Australian market, and I still found that my tolerance was building, my mental health was decreasing even more and more. So I think those were the first few steps to realizing that, you know, I really needed to change something about it. Cannabis is also called a gateway drug sometimes. Did you ever feel like you wanted to try a stronger drug of some sort? Well, the main thing I struggled with was depression, and I did a lot of research just on cannabis. But another one, another few things I did research on that would fix depression would be psychedelics, psychedelic drugs like lsd, psilocybin, mushrooms. But I was never, I was never looking for the hallucinations that those, those drugs give you. I did find myself for a little while on pharmaceutical medications like oxycodone and Valium and a bit of codeine and promethazine, which is just finergan, some people would call it. Aside from the mental health, did you have any other physical health issues, pain or soreness? No, I never had any. Any injuries or anything that caused any physical, like, pain or anything like that. It was all mental at the time. Were you in a supported relationship with your parents or partner or. At the time of a few of my relationships, most of them ended because of cannabis use, overusing it. However, though, my family was quite understanding and quite comforting when it came to my cannabis use, as they knew that it was helping me. And the doctors, you know, would help me and the doctors would make sure they're doing the right thing for my health. So did somebody in your life help you to come to the conclusion that you needed external help as well, or did it just come from you? Most definitely. I found a new girlfriend and she was very comforting with my use of cannabis. She accepted that it was good for me. But then after a while, you know, I started saying to her, you know, I don't feel good after smoking or, you know, it's not doing the most for me anymore. And My mental health's not getting any better. And she did agree that it would be a good idea to reach out and get some help for it. Zoe, when people come to see you in these sorts of situations, what's the first things that go through your mind as a naturopath practitioner? Well, I guess the first thing in my mind is that I want to make this person feel a lot better and help them with their problems. But I do often want to know the history and also the relation to the gut as well the gut brain axis and the liver. So symptoms of gut brain axis do come with anxiety, depression, insomnia, diarrhea, all of those things that Bailey was also experiencing, as well as appetite changes. His resilience to stress had reduced down and he was having moments of paranoia. Is that common if people have been using a lot of thc, rich marijuana? Yeah, it is common because, you know, when they're doing a lot of thc, they don't really want to eat much. Like Bailey was saying, he lost his appetite and when he was eating, he probably wasn't eating the best foods, you know, because he was fatigued. So that's when you start looking for quick fix foods like takeaways, chocolate bars, things like that. Zoe, you work in a group clinic, don't you? Yeah, so I work as a naturopath as part of a multidisciplinary team of nurses, psychologists, social workers, and then obviously ayurvedic and acupuncture, the whole holistic. Bailey was at the center and we were all surrounding him, helping him to get better. Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that. So you all bring your expertise to the table and you support each other in decision making because I guess everyone is a bit different in their presentations. Am I right in saying that you guys have, your center have developed a program to help people get off cannabis and or other substances? Yes, that's correct. So it's a five week program at Salt Recovery House and it's designed to provide that transformative approach to recovery. So like, the rationale behind the duration is sort of rooted in the understanding of true healing and a sustainable recovery take time and there has to be intention and a structured process. So the first week we focus on detox and stabilization. So my part in that is, you know, making sure that all of Bailey's body systems are addressed. So his gut health, he's sleeping well, he might need some neurotransmitter support, magnesium, things like that. So we're addressing the physical and functional health aspects to ensure the Guests feel supported as their bodies adjust. You know, this includes, obviously, medical supervision will be there. There is hormone testing we do as well, gut testing, all sorts of functional testing. And then there's a wellness plan that comes with that. And then the week two to three, we delve deeper into the therapy and emotional healing. On my point of it, it's very much the gut brain axis I'm working with and the microbiome. So, yeah, we work through that. We, we do some functional testing, we do some pathology, and then we meet up again to go over the results. And with his psychologist, he's working through that underlying trauma, emotional wounds, life changes that may have contributed to his addiction and burnout. And this is done through a daily, one on one counseling. And they have mindful practices and therapies tailored to each individual. And then the fourth week introduces Family Pathways Program. Now, this is a really critical part, I believe. I don't know how Bailey, I'm sure, will tell us a little bit about it. But you know, when these people go in, they're very vulnerable, and when they're feeling well and they want to come out, sometimes the families will still see them in the light that they left in, not in the light that they present in now. So that family Pathway program, I believe, is critical to recovery, to integrate the families to support networks in the process and equipping them with tools and strategies to foster a supportive environment for Bailey, you know, if there's ongoing success. And then finally, the fifth week focuses on relapse prevention and aftercare planning. So this is where we really empower guests to leave with a robust toolkit, staying on track, and we help them develop routines and strategies and resources that align with their unique recovery journey. With Bailey, we've gone through a couple of treatment plans where we're in another phase of a treatment plan now where we're supporting his gut health and some. Issues going on there with the family Pathway. I presume this is a system where you're bringing the family into the practice and you're helping them understand what the big macro situation is and working through strategies. Is that what that means? Bailey can probably answer this one because he's done it. Have you done the Family Pathway Program yet, Bailey? Yeah, I've done one, definitely. And they just assist you with your last stage of recovery and your relapse prevention. Keeping your family and your close ones, letting them know you know how to look out for you after you're you finished and how to care for you while you're either coming down off A substance or cannabis specifically. And they. They teach your family, you know, the warning signs of relapse, but mainly being able to teach them to care for you while you're in recovery, as well as. Especially with the family visits, you know, they. They show your family how you've been doing. They sit down and talk to your family about how you have been as well as, you know, they're very, very comforting with your family. And, yeah, your family, when they first come in, did they understand where you're at with the issue? Do they? Were they surprised that you had traveled down this path so far? Yeah, they were a little bit surprised, but they weren't fully understanding of exactly where I was at in my head, as well as my addiction. But I think at the center, they really helped me and my family understand that and acknowledge the processes of recovery. Look, it's so important for them to know. Bailey, I understand you also have a young daughter, is that correct? Yes, I do. Yeah. Was that part of the mission for you, to get off the gear? Yeah, definitely. 100 was. You know, I wanted to do it for my health as well as, you know, be a bit of father, be smarter with my life decisions. And I was spending quite a lot of money on the medical cannabis because it's not cheap. So, you know, and kids aren't very cheap either. So it gave me a lot more money to spend on my family and my daughter, but also gave me better mental health, you know, to live a better life and give her a better life. Yeah, man, I love that. Good on you. What's the relationship between marijuana and the microbiome, Zoe? Well, number one, you know, obviously, that loss of appetite, we see. We do see a reduction of lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, but generally when your mood is low, we see a reduction in that anyway. But what we did see with Bailey, you know, was that when he arrived, he was in a lot of pain. He was in a lot of pain. He was vomiting all the time. He could barely eat. He had lost so much weight. And it was like his nutrients wasn't uptaking into his body. He wasn't getting enough nutrients. And it was beginning to, I would say, you know, exasperate his mental health. So we started on a treatment plan of gut healing with some anti inflammatories and some antioxidants to support. That would be herbs and nutrients? Yes, some herbs and nutrients. Anything specifically come to mind? Yeah, I like curcumin, quercetin, zinc, the B vitamins. We had Some taurine there as well. So we're sorting his gut, supporting his gut brain axis, but gently, you know, gently supporting, obviously, with most of my clients, salt recovery. We do use N acetylcysteine a lot, which obviously is extremely good for reducing liver markers that we do see in most clients that come in. Including Bailey's blood results, we're showing elevated liver enzymes as well as high white blood cell count and low iron. Little sidetrack. I. When I. I used to own a company that used to make vitamins, and I think I was the first person to bring NAC into Australia. Amazing. It's such a fantastic one, that one. And I would have, I don't know, thousands of case studies, and we also sponsored a number of university clinic trials, clinical trials on it. My God, that stuff is just amazing. It is absolutely amazing. It's great stuff and relatively inexpensive and it's just phenomenal. But it works. Oh, no, it really works. Yeah, yeah, we see it. When the client comes in, they get their bloodstone, so we get a full pathology of bloods, you know, the usual blood count, liver function, iron studies. We do zinc to copper as well, because obviously that's something that can affect in mental health. So we're always checking for that one as well. So, yeah, obviously Bailey's had a lot of elevation going on with his. His liver, and then when we check them later on, we see it reducing down nicely, you know, and as long as he continues on the path, he keeps up with the treatment plan, he follows his diet and lifestyle, then we see a really nice reversal and back to health. When you focus on neurotransmitter support, what are you actually trying to achieve there? Well, I'm just trying to support the neurotransmitters because he was quite nutrient depleted at the time. It was clear to me that he wasn't absorbing his nutrients properly. And later down the line, when we did do his advanced complete microbiome mapping, we did see that there was fat malabsorption issues and he wasn't eating, hardly eating at all. So I instantly wanted to get those nutrients that help with the neurotransmitter pathways for Bailey to help. I'm guessing that in many of your clients there'd be a fair amount of adrenal burnout too. Is that a fair. So is that something you would also consider as part of a normal therapy? Yes, in Bailey's case, absolutely. He was very adrenally fatigued and we did use some adrenal herbs, some Siberian ginseng. Some, we also had some withania, some licorice, some Korean ginseng and some rhodiola and a little bit of tyrosine as well. I wouldn't always use tyrosine because, you know, obviously that can affect mental health. But I knew in Bailey's case after doing a thorough holistic treatment plan that that would be appropriate for him. So as a practitioner, what are the first changes that you're looking for to know that you're on track? I think the bowels are probably my first focus, you know, that and sleep. Like, I want to see that his bowels are functioning correctly, that he's not got any diarrhea or constipation, so that I know that he's getting adequate nutrients into his body. I'm also wanting to help with sleep because sleep's always an issue for people who have just coming out of addiction. So supporting those neurotransmitters for calming the mind with the magnesium, obviously as well to. Because a big part of it. If you're on a constant dopamine high and always looking for more dopamine and you take the source away being the marijuana in this case, is there a way of specifically rebalancing dopamine in the body? Well, I think it's all about the food that you eat. Honestly, like, I think nutrition and exercise plays a big part in balancing on neurotransmitters. And when we come in with supplements, nutraceuticals, herbs, you know, we come in because we're helping in that acute state. But generally I would like to hope that following anti inflammatory diet and making sure you're getting enough exercise, both physically active, but also that kind of rest and relax exercise, that those neurotransmitters will come back and balance out nicely. Bailey, how did you feel after the first visit? After the first visit, I was pretty nervous. But I was excited to know that my health was going, going to most definitely improve. And I spoke to a lot of doctors about my stomach pains and how I was feeling. And most of them either recommended that I was, I needed more cannabis or I was, I was not. I was very incompetent in how I look at my body. So, you know, when I said to the doctors, you know, I'm not putting on weight, I don't feel right. A lot of the doctors just pushed it to the side and said, you know, you're fine. But then when I, after my first session with Zoe, she really had a lot of information that really gave the answers to why I was Feeling how I was feeling and made me very confident in that. I know I was talking to the right person about it. Yeah, it must have felt good. Thanks, Bailey. So after a. A week or two of, of using Zoe's approach with the supplements and the dietary change, how did you start to feel physically and mentally? I felt my appetite pick up. My stomach pains and my bowel movements were definitely improving. I noticed that within the second week, most definitely, as well as my stomach pains that I was getting was decreasing very fast. I was almost getting none at that point. And I also. The appetite picked up. I was eating healthier foods that were provided. The exercise was picking up. The mood in general was getting better throughout the day and night. What's exercise look like for you? What do you do in a day or a week? I'll probably do five days. I mean, yeah, five days of personal training and a little bit of boxing in there. So a lot of physical weight lifting and then a lot of. A lot of boxing on the side for cardio and just fitness in. In general. Great. And that is great because now we're supporting that fat malabsorption with the hydrazyme. We're hoping that you'll be able to actually get some muscle on you rather than feeling like you're losing weight all the time. Yes, definitely. What would be the essence of a diet that you'd both be happy with? So just give me an example of breakfast, lunch and dinner. Do you want to go first, Bailey? Yeah, I can go first. For me, a good breakfast would be some scrambled eggs, or even some scrambled eggs and a wrap with some tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, a little bit of onions. Either that or some Greek yogurt with a little bit of granola in it and some blueberries for the morning. Either that or a big bowl of fruit. And for lunch, I'll have something a little bit higher in carbs. It could be a chicken. Chicken sandwich with a bit of bacon in it, but always got to have the lettuce in them at the moment. I'm very big on my wraps and having different wraps every day. Either it's got egg in the wrap in the morning, or if it's got smoked chicken and lots of. Lots and lots of vegetables and salads inside of it. Sometimes a bit of pasta for a higher, higher calorie, and then sometimes I'm eating poke bowls, which is just a mixture of different, different vegetables, sometimes a bit of fish. I was never a big fan of seafood or any fish like that, but recently I've found a few different kinds of fish that I'm really interested in, and they taste really good. So I've been having a lot of those for lunch and for. For dinner. Sometimes I have a. A big bowl of salad with the. Right. With a nice salad dressing on it. A bit of egg in that salad. A bit of mango, if you're interested in having mango. And salads. And salads. Lovely. Yeah, I really. I really like my salads at the moment. Another thing would be goat's cheese and feta cheese with some olives on crackers just for a snack. Turn around. You know, from eating, like, take away. Yeah. A lot of. A lot of burgers back then. Yeah. To now eating what you're eating. I think it's so fantastic. Look, I'm going to give you my big salad secret, Bailey, because I think you deserve it. Okay. You ready for it? Yeah. Little roasted bits of beetroot. There you go. Yeah. It'll change your life. Change your life. Yeah. I've never tried it before in a salad, so I'll have to get onto that. Yeah, it's really nice. Caramelized. It's delicious. We'll just keep that between us guys. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Bailey, you are an amazing person, mate. And to. To recognize, you know, where you've been, where you need to be and where you're going. I'm. I just think it's just such a wonderful story, so I'm grateful you came on board. Thank you, mate. It's just awesome. Thank you for having me. Thank you very much, Zoe. Great work. I mean, just great work. I mean, I think so many people and so many more are going to need the sort of service you provide, because I've just been reading some stats on the number of cannabis prescriptions continuing to increase in this country. It's going nuts. So I hope we work out what we're doing one day. That's it. I have to come and get some pedestrian support at the Salt Recovery House. Where is the Salt Recovery House? Well, it's sort of a secret location, but. Okay. Secret location. But it's. Is there a website, just. Yes, there is. There's a website, Salt Recovery House, and it's just above Madurabar in Naranwood. Beautiful, beautiful house there on a hill in nature. And they have the most marvelous chef there that cooks the most delicious meals as well for them. Yeah. Are you missing. Are you missing the chef's food, Bailey? Yes, most definitely. Yeah, definitely. He gave me some good ideas of foods to eat and dinners to cook. So I was really grateful to meet him and eat some of his food. I don't think I'll ever have some food like his ever again. What was your favorite? Oh, he made his own healthy KFC one time and he would never give me the right secret of what he did to make his deep fried chicken, but that and the poke bowl he was making, that's why he gave me the good idea of having a poke bowl. Very healthy and very delicious. Yeah, excellent. All right, guys, well, look, thank you so much for your time. This has just been really interesting and I personally didn't understand the difference depths of the issue with some of the prescribed marijuana that's out there and I know some people that use it, so that's really interesting to me and hopefully it will help other people. So thank you once again. Thank you very much. Have a great evening. Thank you. You too. Bye Bye.