Trauma Informed Pain Relief

It is generally well accepted that our mind controls our nervous system and overall health. Many eastern  philosophies and western medicines support this approach.  However there is also another way, by training the nervous system to teach the mind. In this episode Tanja Degitz found relief from her intractable pain by using Trauma Informed techniques. 

Transcript

DB

Tanja Degitz, Hello.

TD

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Daniel

Where abouts in the world are you at the moment, Tanya?

Tanja

I'm currently a close to Valencia and a little beach town in Spain.

Daniel

Ohhhh stop it. It sounds fabulous.

Tanja

The beach is second row from here.

Daniel

If you went through some significant physical trauma yourself and presented with some physical pain.

And you discovered that working with your nervous system was the best way forward. And that's what we're going to explore in this discussion today and what we're going to open up is a massive topic and I just didn't realise how massive the whole area of somatic healing is and trauma informed healing is years ago. These weren't conversations we were having. There were not words where we using and so these words are fairly new I think.

Tanja

Interesting.

Daniel

And I'm just wondering if you could let me know how long this sort of terminology has been around, you know, being a trauma informed practitioner.

Tanja

That is a really good question and I can't know. I like I don't know how long the terminology has been around, but I do know that the person that I especially work according to transanal he is not alive anymore. So it must have been for a while and he worked with um, trauma informed practises and he worked with the body. Mind healing especially. So and they I know that he got thrown. Um. Tomatoes at him when he first started practising like people didn't believe him.

Daniel

And working with the nervous system and using mind body medicine is well known. I guess it's just the application of some of the new terminology, but I think it's called terminology so.

Tanja

Yeah, for sure. So he I'll just looked him up and he was born 1923 and he passed away in 2017. So it's been a while, but the first time I heard about it and when I got trauma informed, must have been around two years ago.

Daniel

Okay.

Tanja

So not that long, and I know that the terminology. She in Germany especially about somatic healing, there isn't that much yet, and in Spain either there is nobody in my area that I've heard of that practises it.

Daniel

Let's talk about you, Tonya. In 20/21/22 you were bedridden with lower back pain and hip pain. What was going on there?

Speaker

Yeah.

Tanja

So um, it all started on the glorious day when I did um yoga with a friend on zoom. It was the pandemic times and I remembered intuitively I was like downward dog is not. A good idea? Today I could just tell like shouldn't do it, but then I did it anyways. Peer pressure. Probably. And somebody being on the other side of the of the call, someone from Australia as well and we did yoga with Adrian and I had this shooting pain up my bottom part. And that's the day where it started, and it never. The I mean, it did stop at some point, but for these 1 1/2 or two years I was in constant pain. I could never stop. There was no such thing as ohh it's better in the morning. It was just constant all the time and that's how it started. But I do remember that I wasn't using great office equipment and I could go into that deeper because we make all these storeys up in our mind like ohh, I'm sitting too much. But the truth is a body that's healthy and not tense, and a nervous system that is not chronically dysregulated doesn't matter if he's. All day, of course, it's not the most healthiest thing, but not necessarily. You're gonna be in pain. There's people that work in your office and they they aren't. So I didn't know that back then, so I created a lot of stories around it. And there was behind the pane was overworking. So I discovered over the the years and over doing the work. That the root cause of it was of that part of the pain, because there was more symptoms behind it was perfectionism. People pleasing and definitely overworking, like overdoing things over socialising and things like that.

Speaker

Overwhelmed.

Daniel

Where where does like? From we. Is that something that you drove into yourself or do you think there is some family history of pushing you in those directions?

Tanja

That's a really good question. I think that it was a mixture of both. I think that it definitely started already in childhood and it was what I was known like, you know, chairman mentality of working really hard and I still work hard. But I work smart and I take pranks and there's no shame in that.

Speaker

Yeah.

Tanja

And then, you know, like the whole concept of rest being productive was not really something I was taught to me. And then as well. Feeling your emotions was also not something that I saw in my family, and it wasn't something that I got taught in school. So where do you learn it? Unless you get centred therapy, you don't. So I would say a mixture of Society of childhood and definitely also my family. Like my dad worked many, many hours a week for the same office for 30 years. You know, and I can see my grandpa. And then all the mentality of the Second World War, like all that plays into.

Daniel

Yeah. Yeah. Because trans transgenerational trauma is also a very common theme, and in your particular situation, do you think that played into?

Speaker

Sure.

Tanja

Yeah.

Daniel

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just curious as to where this trauma can.

Tanja

Ohh for sure.

Daniel

From.

Tanja

For sure that plate insert and that influenced me as a person and also my personality traits and that's something I explore in writing therapy as well. I'm trying to speak by Nicole Sacks and definitely also like it's very interesting because I'm the only one and from the family that has yielded herself. Every. You one in my family.

Daniel

Sorry, say that again.

Tanja

Like almost everyone.

Daniel

You. I missed what you said. You're the only one in your family that had what?

Tanja

I'm the only one in a family that has healed herself, and I see almost everybody in my closer family, if not everyone, even my niece. They have chronic issues in some form and my grandpa, my grandma like it goes way back.

Daniel

Yeah, that is so fascinating.

Tanja

That's very interesting.

Daniel

Okay. So in your case potential trigger which may have been in the yoga, opened some floodgates of some emotional depression anxieties, and it manifested itself in this chronic pain in your back and hip.

Speaker

A.

Daniel

How bad was the pain out of 10? How bad was the pain?

Tanja

Ohh it was bad. It was a 10 for sure. It was really bad. It was. It was at the point where, you know, I live really rurally. So the only store that was was like 500 metres away, 600 metres. I couldn't make my walk there.

Daniel

Yeah. Wow. OK, so you literally were stuck in bed.

Speaker

Yes.

Tanja

Like what I did? Is back then I was working as a German language teacher. I already had my first business started, so I went from bed to the laptop. Back to bed. Yeah. OK. Because like when you're self employed, you still have to work. Like I couldn't. And also it was a healthy desk distraction. At least I felt useful in that moment I was able to do something good for someone else, and that was really important I wise.

Daniel

Have to.

Tanja

Like you, you tripped off into, like, really, like a spiral.

Daniel

You went to seek some medical advice as you would for your pain. What did they do for you?

Speaker

Yes.

Daniel

What do they suggest? It was. And what do they try to? What medicines or ideas that they give you?

Tanja

Yeah, taking a big breath here.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

So hmm, I'm registered in Spain, so this is where I went first. Yes, that's where I went. 1st I went to the physical therapist because I already was like ohh. I don't wanna mess with the medical system and I was in between of insurance as a little bit in between of the chairman system and the Spanish one. So until that came through, I went to physical therapist and he did some massages and he gave me exercises. And of course, I'm a great student, so I did it every single day. It didn't help. It didn't do a. OK. And I was sad, but I'm doing it all. Why is it not working? You know when you're in school, when you? Do it all. You get good grades. So I was like, that's weird. And then I went to a doctor and he said it's, um, actually now thinking that he was very smart. He said it's muscle pain. And I need to build muscle and I was like. Okay like that. It doesn't. Didn't make me feel hurt or seen like it didn't do anything for me and. He was like. Ohh if you want I can give you pain relief. And I was like, alright. I went home, took the pain relief again. I was a good student and it didn't make it away like it didn't really work like I still had tension. I wasn't beat it. You know when you take pain relief. That was my mindset. It would be taken away but. Wasn't I seek different practitioners? Let's say on different doctors and I also went into because I'm European in church, so I could go to Germany and I went to a doctor stair and when I was at the gym because I had to build muscle, right? So did that and I must have overtrained or you know, there was some fear around it. Now looking back, I think there was just a lot of tension and a lot of fear around ensuring myself as well and my hip not being strong. And all these limiting beliefs, and one day I it was like I had nerve pain. Suddenly as well and I got an inflammation or something like. It was really bad.

Daniel

Where where was the nerve pain? Was it a new nerve pain? OK.

Tanja

In the hip yet I was new and it felt horrible, so I went to another doctor and did imaging and it came back and he said you have a hip dysplasia, which is a structural issue that usually they realise when you were a kid. And my parents. My dad was like, no, you don't have that. And my sister was like, ohh that's why you never crawl.

Daniel

Thanks sis.

Tanja

So we all.

Speaker

Are.

Tanja

Yeah, I was like, thank you. So I was really relieved having a diagnosis, but it's some it didn't resonate deeply. I was like, well, what am I gonna do with this? So I went to more physical therapists. I went to the character. I went to so many professionals like at some point I. Didn't go back. To the doctors because they didn't do anything. I went private. I got shots like cortisone shots. I've I've done it all and it didn't work and. It's just, yeah, it was. It was just horrible. And at some point I started having hand pain as well. And then the hip pain got better and. I was like. Ohh, that's interesting why it's so my. Body chooses water. More and focuses on that. So that gave me a little bit of questions and then I came across a medic healing and I did a whole course and I became trauma informed and I worked with mentors.

Speaker

This.

Daniel

You you you discovered somatic healing and trauma. Informed what does trauma informed mean to you?

Tanja

OK.

Speaker

Effect.

Tanja

So there's a lot out there. Just trauma formed yoga and everything, right? But for me it is an approach that seeks to understand what the impact is from trauma on people's lives.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

And for me, the emphasis is not on. Just having them talk about it all the time and retraumatizing themselves and making them feel worse or having big releases, but for me it is to connect with the body and feel whatever it is that happened for you in your body and by that releasing it. So it's the goal, is emotional safety. And to empower the people to have control of. Their lives again.

Daniel

What's the difference between a trauma informed approach and somatic healing?

Tanja

I don't think there's much of a difference because yeah.

Daniel

Okay. So it's the medic healing one modality you use to help trauma inform people. Or is it the only one?

Tanja

There's different ways, you know, with trauma, there's talk therapy, there's, you know, trauma informed. Um, yoga? There's so many different things, but I would say so medic healing for me. My interpretation would be that you. You connect with the body because like what a lot of top down approach do approaches do is they work with the mind, but it's very, very hard to work with the mind when the body doesn't feel safe.

Daniel

So, but it seems to me that it reversing the last several decades of thinking, where if you had an issue, you would go to a councillor or psychologist or a psychiatrist.

Tanja

Like, it's almost impossible.

Daniel

And they would try to talk you through the situation and dealing with with mind related issues that are affecting your body or your spirit and that might involved either some sort of counselling or perhaps drugs.

Speaker

Yeah. Business.

Daniel

But from my understanding and what we're talking about now in somatic healing, we're suggesting that the it's the other way around is the nervous system that influences the mind and men. Mental health is that simple.

Speaker

Chess.

Daniel

White putting it OK.

Tanja

Yes, yes. And so I still talk when I have a client session, I still talk because like you know, that's the way to get information as well and it's really necessary. But instead of justice talking, I gently let him take a break and let them connect and feel to the body. And it's quite simple, but when you are ask people they say ohh my partner annoyed me and I would say how does this feel in your body? And I would be like, what do you mean? I don't feel anything or don't even know how to do that. So we do. Somatic tracking and it's it's quite simple.

Speaker

So.

Tanja

Closing your eyes and tracking where does sensations are where the tricky sensations are. And then also where the good sensations are. Because many times our mind focuses on just the negative and it doesn't really have much space for the winds and life for the good things. As well, and your capacity and your nervous system. So imagine you have like a window, right? Everybody has like, a window of regulation where they feel safe, connected, right, like they can respond to things instead of reacting to things subconsciously. You know, your mother knows. You yell at her. That would be a reaction and. You you stay in that, and if you aren't in that window, it's like when you have a cup quiet and your cup is full. When you wake up in the morning, but if you haven't slept well, your cup is half full. So you don't have that much to go compared to a person that has the whole cup full. And what happens with people that have chronic pain and are chronically, like, dysregulated how I call it? They're cop is never really fully full, so there's not much to give, so they constantly pretty much run in very little.

Daniel

Is it reasonable to say that it? It's a bit like meditation in some ways, because from the meditation I've done, it's accepting what your body's feeling and doing it and justice. Accepting that's the way it is. And then just letting it go, is there some crossover there?

Tanja

A little bit. But I always like I always read and like my opinion on it is that meditation is not nervous system regulation.

Daniel

Yes.

Tanja

Even you feel better afterwards. Meditation. Yes, you allow words coming up, especially you allow your thoughts coming and going and. Ohh that, but with somatic healing you connect more with the body, so it depends what kind of meditation it is, because the ones that I guide with my clients they are so medic based. So we really feel the sensations in your bodies. For example, somebody passed away in your, you know, from your friends or family, and I asked you what you know, like instead of how does, how do you feel? Where do you feel this in your body? How does this feel in your body? And he said, Ohh, my stomach is clenching together. That's a that's somatic tracking like we're tracking in the body. Where the sensations are. And it's more in observing, whereas with meditation it depends if you do body scan, it can be similar, but it's not the same thing like you gotta be careful because with meditation sometimes people meditate because they want to get rid of something, whereas in somatic healing we learn to be with what feels great, but also what doesn't feel so great. There's no pushing away in that moment, right? Always first tracking what's happening and then we can do something about it, but a lot of it is just allowing.

Speaker

So.

Tanja

The sensations in the body.

Daniel

Would it be common through a tracking session to feel that the sensation or the feeling, or perhaps the emotion is moving from one place to another or changing in some way?

Tanja

It can happen. Yes, sometimes it stays the same for people. Sometimes it's changing, sometimes it's getting less more. Sometimes it's going somewhere else, sometimes there's a colour coming up, sometimes there's an always ask as well. Is there sound is there colour? Is there a message for you in this? So it can definitely change. It doesn't have to and we try to keep curiosity around this.

Daniel

Okay. So for some people. I get that for some people session could take a day, a month, you know because the body's constantly potentially reacting to something or changing somehow.

Speaker

Hmm.

Daniel

How do you manage it in a presumably A1 hour session or two hour session or whatever you offer?

Tanja

Ohh, that's a really good question. That so my first thought was we do what we can right, but what the the choice of of my work in particular is that I empower people to do it for and with themselves. Okay.

Speaker

Yeah.

Tanja

So I give them the tools. We practise it together because really important to practise it with somebody that's there, that's already correct, related, can hold space for you when things are getting too much or you just wanna, you know, talk about it afterwards. What you experience you wanna share? And then they go off into practise it in their own time. So what I always recommend people, especially people that have chronic pain, chronic symptoms very intensely, is to incorporate little breaks of connections throughout the day. So they do it. Several times a day, connecting to your body and then they can, you know, we always change. Like everything in life changes, but then it doesn't matter because you create a habit. It becomes a lifestyle and then it it goes with the changes and you grow with the practise.

Speaker

I.

Daniel

I guess more Western medicine when you use the word trauma, you would typically associate that with something severe and identifiable like you had a car accident. That's a trauma. You're a victim of sexual abuse. That's a trauma you've got banged on the head in an alleyway. That's a trauma. But what we're also talking about him potentially is less recognisable incidents or early set patterns that may be not so easily identifiable like in your case. You know, you're a bit of a perfectionist. A bit of an overachiever. You know, showing some patterns there which are now are put into the trauma basket, but this is a bit of a transition from the way. Thinking up until now to what you're about, what you offer as a practitioner is that a fair comment?

Tanja

Yes and no, because like it can coexist. It's not black and white. There's the medical term, and if you're not, you know, look it up, because I just did that because I was curious. This is all. Then you find the medical term of physical injury like rupture, right after accidents or whatever, and you also find the explanation of a deeply distressing, disturbing experience. And it can be big trauma and small to small trauma. So big trauma would be losing somebody a creep, you know, getting a physical illness. Yes, that's very distressing. That would be big trauma, where small trauma would be somebody down talking to you, for example.

Daniel

But I guess I understand that, but I guess that's not so easily identifiable for, you know, people having associated small trauma with. The lifetime of mental anguish, which may represent as physical anguish. So your work, I suppose, is trying to really just help people to make those sorts of associations through understanding their physical being more. Or do they also present purely as emoji? No, just stresses as well, like for example you presented with lower back pain. But if somebody came in to see you with ongoing anxiety or another mental health issue, is that something that fits into what you do?

Tanja

Absolutely. So what? Um, that one of the people that I like, the philosophy that I have like that not. Not exactly like them, but their theory is from Nicole Saxon tronzano. Yes, their theory is. That what one person's back pain is is somebody else's anxiety. What some person's migraine is somebody else's depression and what all of it has in common physical and mental. I mean, we know the body and the mind are connected, right? So what it all has in common is that the nervous system is chronically. It dysregulated in that moment, and it can't regulate itself back, because like it's normal to have dysregulation. Things are happening in life. And it's. But like a healthy nervous system, I would say one that's not chronically in fight or flight, for example, goes back to the automatically you don't have to really do anything, right? Like just naturally, like the waves. So I had clients with burnt out before for example, where also the personality traits are also playing into it again. And you know there's boundary work to be done, which is very similar to chronic illness as well. Yeah, we work with Bob.

Daniel

O what are the live?

Speaker

Yes.

Tanja

And then also somebody that has chronic pain.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

Is often somebody that is experiencing like chronic overthinking anxiety as well. Depression, like it comes in a package I feel like.

Daniel

You're right, I think. What are the limitations if somebody for example you and I both wear eyeglasses is visual impairment something that can be associated with deep trauma or emotional trauma or somebody that has asthma?

Speaker

Yeah.

Daniel

Or some other ongoing condition.

Tanja

Yeah. So there's different opinions on this and there's. A whole list. Of what Transando has and I have my own list of realising I have it on my Instagram as well, of realising if somebody is if it's a psychometric issue or not. Right. Um and I've heard and read that people healed their vision completely. And you're not supposed to work lasses. I'm wearing mine because they're blue light classes and I'm more comfortable that way and it's not a priority right now. Um, but with asthma? It also depends because it could be him. I've spoken to somebody about this in Mexico, actually, and she was like ohh, I'm doing somatic therapy and like, ohh yeah, how come do you do it for personal development or is there a reason she's like ohh I'm experiencing asthma and it's more intense when I'm stressed and I'm like, yeah, that's a good indicator. And you know, there's like, um, food sensitivities. For example, and they can also be healed. Because so there's a lot can be a lot of fear on food, right? And that comes by your mind.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

Like you look at something and you're like, well, if I eat that, I'll get bloated. Just because that happened once, maybe in that moment you were. You were feeling stressed subconsciously. You didn't even know. Ohh I didn't have much time to eat. Or even you felt calm and it was some kind. Of fear associated. Maybe you heard in the news that gluten gluten is not good for you. And then you associate that and you get bloated. So you get loaded all over again and then we would do some medic healing practises before you eat that food, we'll chill into the body. How you eat? About that food. If that's even something you want to eat, what your body says about it.

Daniel

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I guess it's a a holistic therapy in a way that you're looking at the whole person and asking them to, you know, help help them to understand how to scan themselves and work through it as opposed for looking at specific symptoms and using specific therapies to deal with that one symptom.

Speaker

Yes.

Tanja

Exactly.

Daniel

What about age groups? I mean, can you practise thematic healing with children? Young children. Is there an age limit? Very old people.

Tanja

So my youngest client was just 15.

Daniel

Uh huh.

Tanja

And it worked really well. He had insomnia and anxiety and mysterious foot pain that nobody knew what it is, and it's gone like after four months. There's no anxiety and there's no insomnia and the foot pain went away just recently. I spoke to him. They've been around six months and I've used certain techniques with my knees. She's 10 and um. She has, like fear of exams. So she has her little um, somatic healing rituals. Um, I think you can quite young, they need to understand they have some kind of understanding but you. Can adapt it. For example, healthy distraction with a child that has physical discomfort, you know, like running after toy, things like that, that can be done pretty young for sure. And as of age. There's no limitation I've worked with somebody over 70 and must have been 72.

Daniel

Hmm okay.

Tanja

I don't think there's any limitation. Important is that this that they understand what you're saying. They can be guided, right?

Daniel

And that's the minimum criteria, regardless of the age you they have to be able to understand your interpret what you're saying and and behave the presence to be guided.

Tanja

Yes, exactly.

Daniel

Yeah, okay.

Tanja

As long as that is available.

Speaker

Yeah.

Tanja

There's no age limitation.

Daniel

Going back to you, this is all about you. Um, you discovered some medical therapies and you discovered trauma informed therapies. How did your journey go? Did you go and see a practitioner? Did you read it about it yourself? What happened?

Tanja

So at first I read the book from Louisa. Hey I think it was, um, Hillier body or something like that. And it says a lack of self love is at the root of every chronic illness. And I was like, are you kidding me? So it didn't resonate right away and I was still very bedridden when I read that. So I put it to. The shelf and I was like, yeah. That and. I helped with the. With the marketing research of a somatic healing practitioner. She was just at the beginning and I would send her clients as well because back then I was like when I figured this out. I want to help other people, but I haven't had it figured out. Was still better than I was. I I don't have much to give here in this. Um area? So I kept sending her people and at some point I reached out myself and I felt very understood already on the marketing research. I was like ohh this. Is different than going to a Western medicine doctor. She really takes the time and it was just marketing research. So I went back to her. I also saw some feedbacks from. All that she had worked with, and I went back to her and I was like, would she have space and would you consider working with me? Do I qualify? She's like ohh yeah. It would be perfect. I've been manifesting to work with you. It's be perfect for it. And she had. A course attached to it as well. And then after. What I did with her. I asked her to do the sessions every two weeks instead of every week because I felt like it was a lot. And this is also how I work. So in between of the sessions you have time to incorporate and implement things and it takes out the pressure because I already put so much pressure on myself, so I wanted to take out of pressure for once and there was a course attached about nervous system recollection, olive's theory, everything around that, everything according to Peter Levine. And I did that for like 9 months and then after that I got a trauma informed coach with the Australian Healing Institute online as well. And then after all that I started reading, I started listening to podcasts. I came across other modalities was with the writing therapy because bless my mentor, she got me very far, but it only healed me 50%. So the nervous system regulation got me quite far, but I had bigger goals. I wanted to travel again. I wanted to sit on a plane for 10-12 hours and I wasn't. Able to sit before. So I came across when I had a new symptom. After working with her, I had like platter sensations so constant urgency like having to pee. Pressure every 10 minutes. And I was like. You know, like I did all the nervous system regulation things. And I was. Like, OK, what what else could I explore? What else is there? And I came across Nicole Saxon. I started writing therapy and that's how I healed the platters symptom, and then I read Trenton Sano's book, when I had really weird foot pain for three days. And I started listening to more um podcasts, and I did a lot of like self study after that as well. But I'm really glad like the right approaches and the right knowledge came to me at the right time when I was able to receive it and take it in.

Speaker

Thank God.

Tanja

Because, like, there's lots of people I talk to, especially in my family, and I would ask my dad yesterday if I would give you a book to read and you could have the possibility to get pain free after that. Would you read it? You know what he said?

Speaker

Hmm.

Tanja

How many pages is it?

Daniel

Ohh, it sounds like a dad.

Speaker

Yeah.

Tanja

How many pages is it? And I was like. Wow, I couldn't would have given somebody my savings. In order to heal. Yeah, I was able. I was. I wanted it so much.

Daniel

Yes, pain is a wonderful motivator.

Tanja

That's very interesting.

Daniel

For sure, without breaking any confidentiality. Are you able to give me an example? Of. The most difficult case that you've come across? Aside from your own, if I put you on the spot too much, don't.

Speaker

Once.

Tanja

So, OK, no, no, not at all.

Daniel

That's fine.

Tanja

So I would say a difficult case for me is somebody that you speak to and I was spoke to that person and they say I have done all the inner work. I've done everything. There's nothing else to heal, but when you speak to them more and you do realise there's still the personality patterns coming through, there's anger around the symptoms, which is so natural. So understandable. But if the person is not willing to sit down and do writing therapy, and then, you know, I say ohh you can just send voice messages to yourself, OK? You don't have to write. I don't force anyone to do anything. They don't want to do. We adjusted to your preferences. There has to be willingness and if there's no willingness and no openness, then that I would consider very difficult case and there's not that much you can do. Hmm. So I would say it would be that it wouldn't be a symptom that supersede were or you know, you've had it for 10 years like I had. Somebody like that as well? And I spoke to in my marketing research recently, but I could still feel there was some openness to still try to still do the work. And still be open for a little bit of a new approach.

Speaker

Let's say.

Tanja

That's the most difficult.

Daniel

It's that willingness, alright.

Tanja

Yeah. Curiosity, they don't even have to believe that I can heal cause I believe it.

Daniel

You need to stay.

Tanja

It's enough, I believe in you.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

And then a belief comes with the journey and doing the work because a lot of people they think about, you know, what was their first, the chicken or the chicken? Or the egg.

Speaker

Of course.

Tanja

And you don't need to have the belief in order to heal.

Speaker

That.

Tanja

I mean, it's great. If you have that, but it will. The maturity of people. They don't believe it. It's normal because you mind considers everything that's new as danger. Yeah, and it wants to protect you, which is so important. And it's natural.

Daniel

Does the. Belief system impacts the timeline of healing.

Tanja

Absolutely yes, mine was. Let's say longer because I had a lot of resistance and my mentor kept telling me to slow down and I was like, no, I can't slow down.

Speaker

I.

Tanja

Have stuff to do. I've places to go. So we systems and you know not necessarily being like okay I believe in.

Speaker

But.

Tanja

Yes, that definitely slows it down.

Daniel

Ohh yes, so you're resistance came from your particular personality type and.

Tanja

Yes. And I was like, just didn't want to slow down. I didn't even know how to do that.

Daniel

Would that normally be part of the treatment or therapy? Is helping people to identify what their personality type is and that potentially sabotaging their own healing journey.

Tanja

Yes, for sure. We look at what's behind what patterns are behind it, what thinking is behind it. All of that. Yeah, for sure.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

That's really important. And my a client I'm working with UM is experiencing a lot of doubt. So we address that for sure. It's really important.

Daniel

Would you generally sat on my hope to speak in generalities? But we need to a bit. Would you generally say that many of these patterns do come from early childhood or peer group or? Something else had happened to that person.

Tanja

Well, this is. How we get primed and prepared for life. Like this is where it all starts. It already starts when you're in the belly of your. Mom like you already feel. Like in a technically speaking like I'm. A little bit, woo. So energetically speaking, you already like. You're the most connected to a person. Yeah. So definitely that has a big impact.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

And then that also influences um, you know, you later development as well, but then it's also things like in school and as a teenager like all that, it's not just the early early days, but it's also teenage years, early adulthood, like all of that. Like it's like a domino effect.

Daniel

And. Good as humans, we we, even before computers, we find our own algorithms. We tend to find our tribe who maybe reinforce our beliefs or what we do or who we are. So that's kind of difficult as well when you when you have someone in a social environment that pushing each other's egos in a various way, that's gotta be, would you consider that a resistant force in the healing or do you have a work around for those sorts of situations?

Tanja

Absolutely. So what I always say is when you want to reach something you haven't reached before and in that way it would be reducing and healing your physically unwanted sensations, also called pain. Then you have to do something that you haven't done before, because if you keep leaving the same way you get the same results. So if you keep surrounding yourself with the same people. Then This is why. I'm such a big fan of coaching. Like even for business help, recently I invested in marketing help and it causes a really good ripple effect because I get out of my own head and also I get out of my environment because nobody in my case and my family is self employed, I'm the only one. So if I stay stuck in that kind of. Mindset being and talking. Then it's it's way harder, so I would totally say that, you know, people say as well the five people you surround yourself with influence you've greatly.

Speaker

So look then.

Tanja

So if you know yourself healer or you won't want to become a selfie. Hello you need to surround yourself with either other self healers and also I think the most difficult is what is it that I actually need at this moment.

Daniel

Yeah.

Tanja

Fight because this practitioners all kinds of different petitioners out there. Would I personally need it was somebody that slows me down in his gentle, not somebody that puts more pressure on top.

Daniel

So in your particular situation with your health, you. Started seeing things differently. You started taking self healing important, you know as an important guide for yourself. What was the timeline? When did you start to notice pain relief? How long did that take?

Speaker

Okay.

Tanja

So our first I'm gonna say because people that are listening to this. Are gonna be like, wow. She did it in that timeline. Every healing journey is so different, and the more you refrain from I need to heal. And take the urgency out the faucet. It's gonna be.

Daniel

Uh huh.

Tanja

And we're in it. We're not in it for a quick fix, even with some of my methods. There are people that Channel ones and they're paying free. Yeah, they reach on Santa's book, and they just, they're pain free. That's it. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes they're good forever. That's. That's it. That's what I needed to hear for me personally. Ohh, I saw the greatest shift when I was travelling to Brazil so I started working with the course and the mentor in April 2022 and I went to Brazil that must. Ben October 22 and I started noticing a shift because I was surrounded by a lot of healthy people, people that didn't know me. I was on a cruise with my ex boyfriend back then and I told him hey, let's not tell people when I'm not feeling well and when I need a break to lay down because I still need it that back then. And he was like, So what are we going to say? And I said, which is gonna say I'm tired. Such as an aunt tired. I'm going to go rest and people didn't even question it. I was on vacation. Nobody cared, but that really helped to build that healing and healthy identity. So definitely that's when. I've. That cost a ripple effect. And then when I travel personal by myself, I was like, wow, I'm capable. Like this is working. Yes, I have to take breaks since and I have to pace myself. But I was more capable than I thought. And then when I got back to Europe, I had a little bit of a. Fall back again because. Healing journey is not really near. It's not like some people are. I wasn't. So I've went back a little bit, but not as bad. I wasn't that written after that point anymore. I just had to take breaks and then I would say after two years.

Daniel

Yeah. OK.

Tanja

Two years and I considered myself symptom free.

Daniel

Read what about ongoing work? I mean, two years later now, do you find that you have to check in with yourself or do you just do that out of habit? Now, what do you do practically? Do you? Do you sort of do a body scan every day or week or month?

Tanja

So I'm not perfect. I'm stilling human.

Speaker

You're not.

Tanja

But no, I'm still a human.

Speaker

We.

Tanja

So I do. Fall back into, you know, waking up and checking my phone first thing. Especially when I change locations, but I have awareness and I do maintenance for sure I don't do my writing therapy every single day anymore. I don't think it's necessary, but I do check in with my body. I connect to my body every single day like there's rarely a day where I wouldn't do that.

Daniel

And how do you do that? What does that mean to you?

Tanja

I close my eyes and I feel the sensations in my body. I feel aware there might be a little bit of tension. I feel where there might be a little bit of tightness, but also feel where there's some openness, there's, you know, my nose usually feels neutral. Um, you know my my toes usually feeling neutral or good and um yeah, just allow and track what's there. And then usually afterwards I do an orienting practise or bring myself back to the present moment. So you would. Call that probably mindfulness or a drink at mindfully a single task. You know, being on this interview, I don't do. Anything else? At the same time, there's no phone, and I spent a lot of time in nature.

Daniel

Okay okay.

Tanja

Every day I move my body. Everyday I start my day with lemon water. You know, that's all my healthy habits. It's not just the nervous system regulation part.

Daniel

Okay so. So just so people can get a sense of of what process is, let's say you're checking in with yourself. You feel a cramp or a pain in one part of your body. What do you do? Is there a technique you do to release that, or do you just accept okay? That's how it's feeling now. I'm going to move on to the next bit. Or do you actually? Activate it somehow and and allow it to leave your body.

Tanja

So at first I track. It and I feel the sensations that are coming up and I see if it has a message for me. If it has a pattern, some kind of colour, so I work a lot on accepting it in the moment. And intuitively I know if I need to stay with it longer, or if I if I want to focus on something else. So I focus on the neutral. And the good part? So it's like being on a swing and you. Swing back and forth. So I would do that a lot and then intuitively I choose if I need to stay more with the neutral parts. The positive, let's say, not a big fan of positive. And negative but for clarity. And what if I need to stay more with the parts that feel tricky, and then afterwards when I get myself out of it, I track my thoughts as well. So I look at at a slow and foggy do I feel sometimes I feel paralysed, so it's more like a frozen state. And then I know that, um, I need to upregulate. So bring in a little bit of movement, but not like a lot at once, but more like, you know, shifting from one side to the other side, starting to fold the laundry. I know I need to bring in some action.

Daniel

Do you really listen to yourself?

Tanja

Yeah, I really listen to myself or my thoughts are very, very fast. So after all my travels. Yeah, I have more fast. Thoughts. And I felt like ohh. My God, I have so much energy. Like usually people have fat legs. Like what's going on? And then it's important to allow that, but also to at some point downregulate. So that would be a called coming down, but that's why nervous system regulation is not calming down because you don't always need to bring yourself down.

Daniel

And how much time would you give this process?

Tanja

You can do this in 10 minutes a day, and if I do writing therapy, it's a 20 minute writing process. But even if you do 10 minutes, but I don't nothing but I always say my ideal client has half an hour a day, 20 minutes for writing, and then 10 minutes to do some form of somatic tracking or something I recorded for them. You know, visualisation, somatic healing meditation, something like that, something that brings kindness to themselves.

Daniel

That's a really good way of putting it. Bring kindness to yourself. People don't do that enough.

Tanja

Yeah.

Daniel

They just don't.

Tanja

No, no. And compassion as fall because like the the people I work with there typically type A personalities and they really hard on themselves. They have high standards so they don't need somebody coming in and putting even more standards on them, and even more pressure.

Daniel

Is there any evidence of any neuroplastic brain changes through somatic therapy to your knowledge?

Tanja

Yeah, for sure. Okay you can create new neural pathways because like that's what Payne is. You experience pain because of suppressed emotions, so for your brain and for your body, for your nervous system, it is safer to send to your physical sensations or pain, then to let you feel what's really behind this. For example, crief sadness. Um. Frustration. Anger, like a lot of people, have suppressed anger and they don't even know because that's the emotion in society. That is the least wanted because it's considered dangerous because anger could lead to physical violence. For example.

Daniel

Sure, of course. Do you work online or face to face with people?

Tanja

I work online and I would love to work with people more face to face now that I'm back in Europe, like for sure, but like 9099% of my work is online.

Daniel

OK. And do you have a a website or a Facebook page or some way of people can connect with you?

Tanja

Yeah. So I have an Instagram making it possible. I have a Facebook Tanya digits just my name.

Daniel

So it's Tania with AJ. That's the European way.

Speaker

Yes.

Daniel

And digits is DEGITZ.

Tanja

Yeah, set and I have a podcast on Spotify. The healing space and yeah.

Daniel

OK, the healing space. Cool as. I want to thank you so much for your time. And there's there's so many things for people. I'm so glad these therapies and these ways of thinking and making their way to the surface, because there are so many people in pain. Let's hope that we can help them.

Tanja

Thank you for having me.

Speaker

They.

Daniel

Pleasure you. Take care.