Severe Rectal Bleeding

Bleeding from your backside can be frightening but haemorrhaging to the point of collapse is a whole new level. Common conditions like haemorrhoids are widely experienced and usually relate to poor diet and inadequate exercise. Some medical procedures such as radiation for prostate cancer can breakdown the blood rich tissue in the rectum and cause significant distress. In this case, basic dietary advice together with a tailor made herbal blend from the Naturopath had an outstandingly positive result. . 

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DB 

 Michelle Matthews, hello. 

Michelle Mathews 

Hello Daniel. 

DB 

Michelle, you have a pretty interesting history. And I remember that you were a naturopath in Australia. I'm thinking 1520 years ago. Is that about right? 

Michelle Mathews 

In Australia, a little bit longer than that for sure. 

DB 

OK. And then you did something very fun and. Thing and you went and worked in Africa for a while. How was that? 

Michelle Mathews 

I did work in Africa for a brief period, so yeah, I did work in the southwestern Sydney Rana clinic in Australia and then I decided that I'd like to have a little bit fun further afield and spread my expertise that I knew actually little about at the time. But I had actually volunteered in a complementary health programme in Kenya, in the city of Nairobi, in the outskirts, in the very impoverished and slums area of Nairobi, and this organisation, I found, because I happened to be in the UK at the time and I was in the middle of. Setting up my clinical practise over there. And this really attracted lots of things about it to me because I found it absolutely interesting. That a complementary, predominantly homoeopathic clinic had set up and was offering free or if very minimal funds to attend the complementary clinic to the Nairobi in people there at the time. So I packed up all my goods and my tools. That were part of my naturopathic toolkit and I had volunteered in a programme over there with an organisation called the Abbot Light Foundation that still runs today and has expanded extensively. 

DB 

Did you say ability or about light? 

Michelle Mathews 

ABBA light sounded. 

DB 

As in, as in ABBA, the Swedish rock band. 

Michelle Mathews 

No, a BHA. 

DB 

All right. 

Michelle Mathews 

Being a clinician there, we dispensed homoeopathic medicines predominantly, but they did have some small amount of crude herbal extracts as well, which they were using to success to make homoeopathic remedies. And when I had. I said to the organiser, I said Ohh you need to actually give these in drop dosages. You've got great small selection of herbs. OK. And the organiser, who was a homoeopath was was like what you need, you can actually give these internal? I said, of course you can. Get. Internally, you'll get fantastic results along with the homeopathics that you're prescribing as well. So it was absolutely eye opening. I don't think I will ever. 

DB 

Nice. 

Michelle Mathews 

See clients that I had seen in Kenya and as you can imagine. It's very poor. In Nairobi, and because we're working in the outskirts in the slums area, it was just dismal. It's not. It's not something I haven't been used to because I have travelled to third World countries prior to that. But yeah, just the cases we saw were just so extreme, from children to adults to, you know, there was a lot of abuse. There and as a result. There's lots of sexually. Transmitted diseases and skin diseases and every medication and allopathic medicine. Is just so expensive. Everything is charged and sometimes it would be a month's worth of wages just to go and visit the doctor and get medicines for a couple of weeks. So homoeopathy was just such a more viable option. 

DB 

From a cost point of view. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, absolutely. And then what we did actually, we went on an outreach. So we used to pack. Up all our. Goods and homoeopathic medicines. And then we went further afield into the outskirts. Of the edges. Of Kenya and dispensed homoeopathic medicines to the villages and the people out in the villages as well. So as part of the programme, we also had outreach programmes, delivering homoeopathic medicines to villages further out of the Nairobi capital, and we packed up all our goods and wares. Homoeopathic kits and then we would travel out into the small. Villages and dispense homoeopathic medicines for a day and we just used to have queues and queues at people, so it was really acutely homoeopathic prescribing, I guess in a lot of cases. 

DB 

Yes. Are are there one or two cases that stand out for you just to give the audience today a bit of an example of what you had to deal with? 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, there's two really. One particular case was a young girl. She was probably maybe 12 or 13 and. You have to do lots of observations of body parts and it was quite traumatic actually, but she had vaginal warts for a 12 year old sexually transmitted disease, but interestingly, it was her father. I think that had brought her into the clinic and he was very insistent that it kind of gets sorted. And a senior colleague had stepped in and actually gave him a stern warning. If you can imagine what was probably going on there and then the other case was a very young child, he was probably about. Two or three. At the time, and his grandmother had brought him into the clinic, and I certainly remember the first thing that I remember was this odour that this poor child. Had. And. It was quite bad because what he had had was the most severe ear infection. I think that I had ever seen and the grandmother's method of kind of containing it is that she would kind of clean it out. I think on a daily or two daily basis and then pack the ear again with cotton wool to. I kind of guess, curb the infection and curb the smell and it was absolutely horrendous and this poor child, he wasn't in any pain as such. But you know, they couldn't afford antibiotics and just the discharge and the mucus was so horrific the whole. 

DB 

What would you do in a case like that? 

Michelle Mathews 

So yeah, so we actually had to educate her to say, you know, this is an infection that it's trying to get out. So you, you shouldn't pack the ear. You're only gonna. Harbour it and induce more infection into the year. So we cleaned it out and I happened to have some ear candles with me so I had done some ear candling and then I got her. To come back. A week later. But prior to doing the first session of ear candling, cleaning out her, cleaning out the child's ear, I did use the crude form of. There was a homoeopath. Sorry, a a crude herbal medicine form of calendar. And I had said to the mother. The grandmother give the child this in four drops twice a day. You know, if you'll if you won't take it, put it in water. Put it in any sort of juice. And when she had come back the following week, Kenyans tend to be very elaborate in their description. And she had. I never forget, she had expressed that the ear infection had been significantly better. But the thing that she felt had really cleared it up was that when she gave the child the crew herbal extract of calendula, just those four drops daily for that week and the first three to four days. The child had vomited black like she only described it as black vomit, and they're very also, I guess religious as well and spiritual, and that the evil was coming out of the child with this black vomit and he needed. Vomit up the black vomit to get rid of the infection. So whether you know that was true or not. I think just simply giving the child some. Sort of support. Immune, wise and and basic hygiene. 

DB 

Right. I mean, Colangelo is a herbal antiseptic antibiotic of sorts, somewhat of an antifungal agent, so often it's used topically or internally or both, but the dose you gave was a fairly small dose, but obviously enough for this child. 

Michelle Mathews 

That's correct. Yeah, absolutely. And what I found is that. Anything you kind of gave them, whether it was homoeopathic or small drops of herbal medicine, they just seem to have such profound results. And I kind of think that from, I don't know whether you call it a spiritual. Aspect. But when you see patients in the West, they tend to be spiritual, more tainted. You know, they've had lots of prescriptions of antibiotics or. They've accumulated stuff from their forefathers or something like that. When? You're experiencing people of that nature in in Kenya. They're kind of not tainted in that way. And I think and and also as a child as well, they do tend to respond quick, I do find, but yeah, that their improvements and the description of how they explained that they. You know, had gotten better. I just found quite intriguing, really. 

DB 

So I guess they come to see the practitioners with a different set of expectations and subsequently you get different outcomes. So you do to us art and types in the West. 

Michelle Mathews 

That's right. Yeah. That's right. That's for sure. And the other thing that I wanted to say actually. Was. I had gone to Kenya, but then I took a brief trip home to Australia because I mean, you know, the Australian continent is so close to the African continent and. 

DB 

Of course. 

Michelle Mathews 

How wrong I was. And I had approached you at the time and you had kindly donated a big, big box of supplements. Which then I took back to Kenya to the clinic and yeah, and we had, you know, some of them were all different sorts of supplements and multivitamins and stuff like that. So. And we had dispensed a sum of the multi vitamins to children in particular. 

DB 

OK, I do remember that, yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

And then then the rest of the clinicians, when I left had utilised those effectively, but that was just so generous. 

DB 

Glad, Tom, glad to hear that. Good, good. No worries. Now you did mention ear candling before and that's not something we've ever discussed on this podcast. So for the audience, would you mind just describing what ear candling is? What you think it does, and what the expectations are from it? 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, absolutely. So E Candling has always been a bit of a favourite. And actually I did a qualification in E candling a little bit later and E candling is a funnel usually. With gauze dipped in beeswax and its handle shape, and it's hollow at both ends, and it's papered at one end where you put the. Small funnel into the base of the ear and I guess it creates a little bit of a vacuum and heat in the outer aspect of the ear canal to draw debris out of the ear. Now whether it actually fully draws the debris out, there's always been confrontations over the. But I've always I've used it on children quite a bit, actually, and they do find it's very relaxing to do that and just to warm up the ear canal as well. It's a very old ancient tradition. I think they used in Native American medicine. 

DB 

This is All fascinating and this and this part of the conversation was just for my own curiosity, because I've always been fascinated with some of these clinics in Africa are naturopaths from the West to go over there? And umm, you know, we're so used to working with a set of tools like medicine. Really. You know, we might use herbs or supplements, but to go over there with with practically. Be living off your wits more than anything and trying to help people with a set of tools that you're probably not used to using some of the time is is quite an amazing experience, so yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Yeah, it was fantastic. I have to say, I do love homoeopathy and I have, you know, obtain my qualifications in homoeopathy. But homoeopathy was never really my strong point. I was very pleased when she had the head of Foundation had this array of crude herbal tinctures just. And yes. Using them to cost other. Homoeopathic medicines, which obviously I'm aware of how they do that. But and I said what? Why are you using these internally? You know this is fantastic for this and this is fantastic for this and yeah so. 

DB 

We're getting away from the nature of this podcast, but it would be wonderful to set up a school or something there to look at local African herbs and their medicinal. 40S and making them into tinctures and giving them to to people that can't afford them. That would just be a lot of fun, I reckon. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm I'm quite fascinated about indigenous herbs in other countries as well. I've kind of had a look a little bit with Indonesian indigenous plants and I wish we would do more about indigenous herbs in Australia. 

DB 

Yes. Yeah, yeah, so do I. Anyway, let's get back to why we're here and let's talk about you. Move back to London and you have a particular patient you've offered to discuss, which I'm grateful for. And he was a 70 year old male. 

Michelle Mathews 

Hmm. 

DB 

And he was presenting to you with severe haemorrhoids, severe haemorrhaging, that means a lot of bleeding, presumably after each bowel motion. But perhaps you'd like to tell me more, you know, of of his symptoms. Is that his main presentation to you? 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yes, as lots of patients do, they come to naturopaths as a last resort and my clinic was set up in Scotland and I was there for almost 20 years and being an astropath in Scotland and one of the first. 

Speaker 

Yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

Questions I got. Was what is a naturopath? Yes, and I spent a lot of time explaining the difference between the naturopaths. There was quite a few naturopaths in London for sure, but definitely not way up north, so he actually had presented initially. Well, with a whole. Really, bag of stuff that he had come to me with. He had a history of prostate cancer. He had a history of prostitutes, but his main and acute issue was haemorrhoids, which he had actually for quite a long time. But due to his treatment. With his prostitutes and then subsequently his prostate cancer really took a toll on his haemorrhoids. And he had presented with bleeding and collapse, and as a result, he ended up in. 

DB 

Sorry, do you mean rectal collapse or or is whole person collapse? 

Michelle Mathews 

The hospital. No, physically he physically collides. Yep. Yep. So he had physically collapsed in his driveway due to the bleeding. So he was a 70 year old male. 

DB 

Right. OK. 

Michelle Mathews 

And he was, I would say, quite. A low vitality old 70 year old male. He actually came with his wife and it was his wife that really was the drive and really did everything for him. And he presented. As I said with the prostatitis he had treatment on that called a method turps procedure, whereas they surgically remove a little bit of the prostate. 

Speaker 

It. 

Michelle Mathews 

And then he was put on antibiotics, and then he was always kind of monitoring his prostatic health by his PSA. And regardless of his Terps procedure, the PSA level continued to rise. Then he was put on various medications. And then it was found out that he, about a year later that he had a prostate cancer. And as a result of that, he was given very intense radiotherapy and also a medication called casodex, which is a chemotherapy tablet. And he was also given hormone injections on a once every three months. For a period. And then he was also given something called beam therapy, which is where they. Target the prostate cancer with radiation like a beam. Really. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Michelle Mathews 

And that was daily for almost 3 weeks. So he was coming with. Whilst many people may experience haemorrhoids, 40% of Australians have experienced haemorrhoids and actually about 50% of Scottish people have or experienced haemorrhoids. For him, it was perhaps quite significant. Even though it was, you know, we see haemorrhoids, perhaps as a minor issue. But just the complexity of his case was quite. Key. 

DB 

Yeah. So the radiation itself can thin out the of of inside the ****** cause a lot of weakness of the vascular structure and therefore exacerbate existing haemorrhoids or create new ones. Do you remember when this was done? Because there have been some changes in the way they do this now? 

Speaker 

Yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, that's true that that's what I was also thinking about this. This was some time ago. This was around 2011. 

DB 

OK. 

Michelle Mathews 

That he had had this, but this had kind of gone on for about 18 months really from the first time that he was getting the prostatitis treatment. 

DB 

Yeah, and that's because. 

Michelle Mathews 

To kind of having the radiation therapy and you know, so it was a long time period. 

DB 

And so and this happens because the prostate is just so close to the ****** and it's basically a spillover from the radiation into the ******. And but now they use they offer, I should say a hydrogel which they call a spacer, so they. Reject a gel between the prostate and the and and the ****** to try to space out centimetre or so so the the radiation has some distance from the ******, but that hydrogel itself can cause side effects including ulcers and inflammation and fistulas. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

DB 

And haemorrhoids, so. You know, this is a really good conversation and I'm glad you brought it up because so many people have radiation. I mean, men have radiation therapy associated with prostate conditions and the side effects of the haemorrhoids or other rectal or **** type of issues is not insignificant. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I actually, I had a lot of male patients, and they all. I had a lot of male patients, but I also had just generally. A lot of elderly patients as well. I don't know what I seem to attract and they left. Me with their big. Bag of. Their prescription medications and I do remember, sorry. Now this is off topic slightly, but there was another patient I had that had come to me because he was diagnosed with cancer prostate cancer and he had the. Radioactive beads into the prostate and then he was subsequently advised by his oncologist is that his grandchildren? 

DB 

Yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

Or. Could not sit on his lap for three to six months. 

DB 

Ohh gosh yeah, you told me that before. Thanks. 

Michelle Mathews 

I know. 

DB 

What did you do? I mean, this is fairly, I mean, the damage that's caused by radiotherapy to the rectal area can be quite significant. So they turn up to you and and you know other than trying to build up his iron levels and his blood levels. Again. Yeah. What? What do you do? What's your first step? 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, well, he had come with the deadline. 

DB 

Right, just add a bit of pressure. 

Michelle Mathews 

Because. 

DB 

To it, yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. He had had two blood transfusions, so they were through cannula. And as a result of that, on discharge, he actually developed a staph infection as a result of the site of the cannula. And the bleeding had slowed. However, it had come to a head, really, that he was so debilitated and the haemorrhoids were so significant that his gastroenterologist had advised that he needs to come back in six weeks because he needs to have surgery to have them removed. And I think that certainly scared him quite significantly just because of being in and out of hospital so much with his other issues. And then with his blood transfusion. And actually he also had IV antibiotics as well as tablet antibiotics over kind of the period as well. So yeah, he came to me with a deadline saying. I. Need these corrected in six weeks because he didn't want to go back into hospital and have further surgery. So no pressure. And I had said to him because he was so vitality. So because he was so low in his vitality and it was really his wife, that was his major support, it was really going to be her. Do. Do all the food suggestions that I had made. So what we had done? Is that? He was on a standard British or Scottish diet, which included porridge and wheat bran and bran, and taking his orange juice every day. And he I think he was advised at some point to take probiotics. So he took his little. The meal that he could get off the supermarket shelf and, you know, having his mid morning. Food and his desserts after dinner and his standard white bread sandwich with ham and cheese for lunch. Kind of scenario. So the big principle for me, and it was kind of an aspect of my clinic because I did have such elderly or older patients in my demographic I. Developed a a kind of approach to food which was around the energetic principles of food and food type. And for him, it was really a convalescent diet. So it was foods that nourishes digestive system, that are easily digestible but yet providing warming aspects from his food. So it included things like soluble fibre foods that are predominantly cooked, healing foods, warming foods and then trying to add. In those warming herbals like cinnamon and nutmeg and ginger through his food as well. One of my absolute loves though, in herbal medicine I call herbal therapeutic food is slippery Elm powder, so I had employed that quite a lot in his diet, encouraging him to take that every day. I did advise him to really concentrate on his diet and I had a. Suggested that he avoid dairy completely. No white bread, no white grains, no coffee, no tea, no hard insoluble fibres that are quite abrasive. Like wheat germ, for example. And the aim was to really keeping it simple for him so that he could manage it with his wife. And then I had also included a herbal tincture formula that was formulated for him. And obviously the superior powder. And then I had put him on a practitioner only probiotic formula, so that was the aim of the regime, to really address his immediate concern. And that was around his haemorrhoids, however. Saying that there are other aspects that I was kind of working as an undercurrent through the herbal medicine that I had given him to trying to restore his vitality and his energy as well on. 

DB 

Umm. As you know, natural passov talking about poo and. And when he turned up to you to see you the first time, I'm sure you asked him about his. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

DB 

Habits. What were what were they like? Loose. Constipated. Dry. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. So they were very ill formed, they were loose. He was having blood in the stool. 

DB 

How many times a day? 

Michelle Mathews 

Ohh, every day. Absolutely every day there was even. I think it was the first time that he came. There had been episodes where he was. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

Incontinent with his bowels as well at home, and he was a very frail and thin man as well. So it had just absolutely depleted him completely. 

DB 

And and. Oh, terrific, I imagine as well. Yeah. OK. Alright. And so after you adjusted his diet and worked with his wife on that. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

DB 

Over what period of time did you see his bowels adjust and and how did they adjust? 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. So well, remember initially we had a six week deadline. 

DB 

Right. 

Michelle Mathews 

By the time he came back, though, it was actually about 3 weeks later. I would have liked him to come in a little bit sooner, but it was about three-week. And he had the one thing that he really did was concentrate on his diet, and he took the slippery on powder. So he really liked the slippery Elm powder a lot, the daily bleeding that he had experience with every bowel motion had subsided to about twice a week. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

Michelle Mathews 

And he had felt that he had more concentration and more energy, and he actually stopped sleeping throughout the day. And his bowels, as you were asking, were more formed. But there were still episodes of bleeding and loose stools, but he didn't have any pain. So that was quite. A good improvement. 

DB 

Indeed, yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

I did have one little bit of lack of compliance and that was with the herbal medicine. He didn't take any of the herbal medicine script that I had given him, which was a little bit disappointing. However, he did a lot to work, work on his diet for sure so. 

DB 

Hello. Yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

After that, his wife was actually a school teacher primary school. Feature and she had developed and recorded a stool diary for me. 

DB 

Suit. 

Michelle Mathews 

Which was quite interesting. It was all colour coded and there was circles and then there was completely blocked out circles which indicated certain things. So she had a legend associated with the stool diary that she was had developed for him. And you know, keeping him on track. And then by the appointment after that, which was about. Ohh, sorry, I'll just go back and say that within that three-week period, yeah, he actually had an appointment with his regular GP. So he was under the care of the gastroenterologist, the oncologist and the GP. So he's appointment within that three-week period. 

DB 

Yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

Because the GP was kind of keeping a check up on him, he had returned to his regular GP and within the time frame that I had seen him in from for first appoint. And then he came and saw me at the first follow up. Three weeks later, his GP was very confident and very supportive of what he was doing and the support that he was receiving as well. So that was encouraging and obviously directly from the GP it came from him. But. 

Speaker 

Yes. Yes, yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

That was quite good. And then? The second follow up was about three to four weeks later, so we've clearly missed the the six week deadline, but because he had such improvement within the first three weeks of seeing me, he decided that he no longer needed to go to the gastroenterologist and the GP was happy. With the improvement that he had made, so interestingly though, when I grilled him and his wife, the second follow up, he did admit that whilst he did every effort to eliminate dairy. It wasn't until he completely eliminated dairy, so he, you know, would have a splash of milk in his coffee and a very Scottish dish. His smoked cod in milk, you poach it in milk. So when they were very diligent to eliminate all dairy completely. 

DB 

Really. 

Michelle Mathews 

He really noticed quite a significant improvement. With his bowel habits and with his overall demeanour, I could certainly see it when he returned, so he had no no bleeding at all, not even a single small episode, and his stools were completely normal. 

DB 

That's extraordinary. Congratulations. That's that's really cool. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Yeah, but. Dealing with stoic Scottish men can certainly be a little bit difficult. That's why I tend. Be a little bit of a hard task master, but it's really all the effort that they have to they have to do the work, yeah. 

DB 

Yeah. And that's a bit of a reeducation. Is that because? I guess a lot of people just want to be told what to do and just? Do. Whatever the doctor says to do, take this tablet. Just make it easy for me. But when they actually have to do the work for themselves, it takes a bit of coaching. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Yeah, but that that's what happens. I think people come to you and they are. Absolutely desperate because. 

DB 

Yes. 

Michelle Mathews 

They have just exhausted all avenues all there. Frightened of what? The the choice that they've been given. 

DB 

Like didn't he didn't take his herbal medicine, which I'm sure would have accelerated his progress. What herbs were you giving him and why didn't he take them? 

Speaker 

Thank you. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. So as you know, Daniel Herbs aren't necessarily pleasant. 

Speaker 

There are some. 

DB 

If they don't mind. 

Michelle Mathews 

I don't. I don't like to give anything really in in tablets I like, I like my powders and my liquids. I would just say that by the 2nd follow up when I found out he didn't take his first prescription, I was quite adamant that he needed to take it. So then he started to take it cause I said that exactly. I said if we've you've made such amazing progress. But you can certainly do a lot more and you would get further if you just implemented the herbal medicine as well, because that has to support your energy levels. We're working on your digestive health, but when you've been under such. Harsh medical treatment. The body needs to recover. The incident may be over. You may have not necessarily had the prostate cancer anymore, has been zapped out or whatever. But it's the recovery process that I think people sometimes lose sight of. And I certainly found that. If my clients as well, they would come to me and they said Ohh yeah, but that, but that incident happened six months ago and I still feel really terrible. This is still happening. Or. This incident I had, you know, 12 years ago has come back and yeah, so certainly post traumatic recovery. 

DB 

Yeah. So what sort of herbs would you have used as an example? 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, yeah. So I the first herbal script I put together was marshmallow. Gotcha, cola, chamomile, nettle, astragalus and Meadow sweet in there as well. 

DB 

So a nice soothing sort of blend. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Yeah. And restorative with all our nettle, you know, has those great qualities, little bit of mineral support in there and elements of iron and Meadow suite as well just for the digestive anti-inflammatory aspect. 

DB 

And restorative. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, together with the slippery arm, which has a. Anti-inflammatory effect as well on the gut. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, he did take it and I had encouraged him, you know, he could put it in a little bit of juice or if you actually put it in a little bit of warm water, it kind of helps to burn off the alcohol, maybe a little bit. So. And then after his second appointment, then I implemented just a mineral. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

Complex and I had implemented also a glutamine powder as a powder St. As well, just to help with digestive and epithelial recovery and repair for the gut as well and. 

DB 

We build the gun, yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

When he had completely stopped the dairy products, he and he no longer needed to go to the gastroenterologist, but he is still obviously under the care of his group and his oncologist. He started to volunteer in a local bookshop. He was even had the confidence to actually go outside of his home as well because he couldn't. He couldn't function. He wouldn't even go to the shops. You know, where with the fear of needing the toilet or something would happen to him so. Yes, that was. 

DB 

It's just so great he got all that back. Yeah. And have you seen him or heard from him in the last few? Years. 

Michelle Mathews 

Not not in the last few years. So he actually stayed as a patient for about 10 months because we started to work on other stuff as well. And my other underlying aspect that I wanted to. 

DB 

Uh-huh. 

Michelle Mathews 

Help him with was his recovery from all the treatment that he had. He was actually on quite an array of medications. Prior, I mean, I had listed some there, but he was also on blood pressure medication. He was also on an ACE inhibitor. He was also on Adalat. Which is a. A calcium channel blocker for BP and angina as well. And when he did go back to his oncologist, probably about six to six to seven months. After seeing me, as I said at the start, he was also, you know, had a very detailed record of his PSA and all that kind of stuff. So his PSA levels towards the end of seeing me really which was about that 10 month period had dropped to .7. 

DB 

Wow. 

Michelle Mathews 

When in the early stages they had been up at a point. Ohh yeah, they had got as high as 31.2 was. That's not an only measure, but that's what he was measuring his health against was this ESA level. So and then further on to that then we did some hair. General analysis testing. So I used him analysis testing as a bit of a diagnostic tool to determine his trace minerals as well. But I had suspected. That they were a little bit. Low anyway, from the iron that he was. Deficient in and I had put him on him in your complex quite some time prior anyway. 

DB 

Very good. And you miss that sort of environment, you're happy to be back in Australia? 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah, I do enjoy living in Australia. It's certainly different, I would say compared to, I guess, practising as a natural path from colleagues I have here to practising as a natural path over in Scotland. I guess there's a little bit more leniency I guess now I just look after all my friends and family from. As a naturopath, really that. 

DB 

Yeah, yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

To go into clinical practise is it's quite a toll, I think, yeah, it takes. 

DB 

And it's a big job. 

Michelle Mathews 

A lot of dedication. Sure. 

DB 

It's a tiring job. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Michelle Mathews 

The fish. 

Speaker 

For sure. 

Michelle Mathews 

I think people don't understand is that when you go and see a naturopath, maybe for your first hours, appoint the research and the dedication that they put in. 

Speaker 

Work. 

Michelle Mathews 

To making sure that every aspect of that individual's health is considered, it certainly takes time. It's not always just. You know. A tablet off the shelf or something like that so. 

DB 

No, because you also have to be aware of all the medical drugs they're taking as well and the impact that that has on the side effects and the interactions. And as certainly a lot that goes into it. Michelle, that was a really interesting case actually thank you for sharing that because I do know a lot of people are men particularly after prostate. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You're welcome. 

DB 

Radiation surgery or even prostate remove. Will have a lot of ongoing issues and it's really cool to know that there are opportunities to improve upon that. So thank you. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. 

DB 

And well, I hope to see you again soon. 

Michelle Mathews 

Yeah. Thank you so much, Daniel. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. 

DB 

Thank you. See ya.