Turning Multiple Sclerosis around

When MS (Multiple Sclerosis) patient Jana visited Naturopath Helen Christian, she was in a terrible state. With limited mobility, insomnia, depression and deep seated anger Jana felt like she was a burden to her family and society. Within a couple of weeks Jana's life did a 180 degree turn and she now feels amazing and has become the valuable contributor she yearned to be. How did Helen and Jana accomplish this?

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More and more people are choosing natural and holistic medicine because of the real and sustainable results achieved. A patient story discusses the healing journey that real people have experienced and how it has changed their lives. Today we're talking about MS, multiple sclerosis. It's a condition that affects somewhere around 35,000 Australians, considered to be an autoimmune condition. But there is so much we can do from a naturopathic point of view. And we're fortunate today to talk to Helen Christian and her client, or patient, Jana. Hello to you both. Hello. Hi, Daniel. Helen, how are you going? Yeah, I'm good, Daniel, how are you? I am really good, actually. Janna came to see you in 2022 with a very complicated case of multiple sclerosis. You want to just talk us through how her presentation was? Jana came into the clinic not in a good state. She was really struggling to walk. The way you see her now is nothing like she was. She was quite angry. She was really. She had lost all hope that anything could be done for her. She was very, very glib. She'd had worsening spasticity, so she was really struggling to move. Her energy was pretty much zero. She had a lot of things going on. She had insulin resistance, there was a lot of pain, there was a lot of anxiety, there was a lot of cognitive decline. She was celiac, she was lactose intolerant, she had massive gut issues. There was a lot there. She was very complex. Jana, how old were you, if you don't mind me asking, at that time. When I went and saw Helen? Yes. So that was it, two years ago. Helen, I saw you. The first time was in July, 2022. Yana. Yes. So that will be 52. And how long that you started to notice some of these symptoms prior to going to seeing Helen? Oh, my history of symptoms, if we say it's a very long one, over a very long period of time, just to give a bit of a background, I was born in North Macedonia, which is former Yugoslavia, in Europe. As a very young girl, I've been experiencing severe migraines, and from that we'll go into severe gut issues. Then we will have very rigid muscles and so forth. I will be given b twelve injections. I will vary between constipation, and then we will go into diarrhea, learning cognitive and so forth. But of course, all these symptoms that we're presenting were, even back then, quite brushed off to getting into a period when we are getting our periods. And, you know, if there is any stress in the family dynamic or the life and so forth. So my symptoms very early on, of course, are coming to Australia in 1990 and the symptoms are continuing. And again we have from anxiety, depression, cognitive, to the ability, severe gut issues, migraines again. And for every little thing that I go and see a doctor, I will do a GP, it will be your newcomer or. Okay, so this could be because getting used to the new country, new food, mind you, there was nothing, you know, that was out of the ordinary as per se, but everything when we are talking about seeing for every little symptoms that I will have, it seemed to the general practitioner that I am going there and I'm becoming a bit of a paranoid person. We are talking about gaslighting, medical protection against lighting. And I'm sure this is something that comes across if you do interview quite a lot of people about their journey through MS and diagnosis. And I think one of recurrent topic that them, everyone will say, this is including me right away. I'm saying gaslighting, we are pretty much left alone. We're pretty much labeled off that we are depressed. Which one of the actually symptoms, many just in general about multiple sclerosis is actually depression, anxiety, constipation, difficulty swallowing, severe gut issues, body weight, fatigue, muscle pains and aches. And some, you might be surprised out there, the listeners, it's high cholesterol, actually. Well, actually I'm not so surprised because the body's producing excessive cholesterol to try to repair the damaged fatty tissue or the nerve sheath, which is surrounding the nerves, which is the issue in multiple sclerosis. So we will be, I'll be written kind of thing. Okay, well, you have been through this, through that. So let's try, try like meditation, a bit of yoga, a bit of exercise to reduce the body pain. Well, or the weight as well. So what's happening is I will go and I will enroll myself into a gym. So many wasted gym memberships, because after a week tops to two weeks, I will experience severe pains, fatigue. Nothing is working, no matter what I do. So I back, I think back in when it comes really, really crunch for me was that back in 2014, I think I was 45 years old, I had a colonoscopy done, gastroscopic colonoscopy, samples were taken, biopsies, and I was finally diagnosed with diaciliac disease and lactose deficiency. And I was told that I can have bread and everything else, rye and oats and everything else, and milk, only lactose free milk, a tiny, tiny amount in a coffee if I drink. And that was it. At the same time, 2014, I am officially diagnosed as entering the period of perimenopause. But in actual fact, I had stopped my period just after my daughter was born. 2004 she was born. So I will be around the age of 37. Issues with getting period, internal bleeding, endometriosis and so forth. So going through quite a lot of surgeries as well. For a women, from a women point of view. Now, as someone with Ms. Now, what I know about it is that one of the very kind of bells are ringing of women with miss is when they stop their period prematurely or they do not have regular periods, or like in my case, I would be for polyps removal and so forth. So all these are accumulated, continually getting headaches again. I was given a name of a dietitian to go to help me with my celiac disease, to put a plan together. So I was put on a strict gluten free diet. That gluten free diet, mind you, included bread that I can buy it from the stores that are gluten free. So I was told that I had what I had to look for. Foods, of course, that I was allowed to take whole, in a sense of we are talking foods, basically pasta, gluten free pasta, gluten free bread, legumes, milk, lactose free. Gluten free milk. Right? So I do all these things. Nothing is improving. I end up in hospital regularly. And then what happened was, in 2017, from walking 10 day, the next day I cannot get up. I feel very fatigued, in pain and cognitive. Any reasoning being able to express myself. That must have been such a shock to you. The shock actually very quickly turned into embarrassment. And I'd like to bring this issue, because I feel especially, regardless whether it's a women or men, one of the biggest issue for me was, I will go for a walk and then I will have pains in the bowel, the bladder, while walking. And I would kind of stop, pause, but nothing. I will take a couple of steps, and then, very brutally honest, I will soil my tanks. Yes. So I lost all control over my bowels. So that happens. One, I had to ring my husband. He came, picked me up. Now, for a 52 year old woman, this is not pleasant at all. For any age, it's not pleasant. So there was like, I thought, okay, something has happened. I wasn't able to go, but then again, happened not three times. And at that stage, I couldn't deal with that anymore. I knew something was very wrong, especially that back in 2013, I went and saw a neurologist because of my severe migraines. And he did an MRI only on the head, the brain, not the neck or the spine. And he came, and actually, the report came back and he said, demyelination. The neurologist took it upon himself to say that this is due to my getting older. So from 2013 to 2017, when I can't walk anymore and I have all these issues, I didn't know what to do anymore. It came to a point where anger kicked in, embarrassment kicked in. I was unable to hold a conversation. I was becoming very angry, very irrational, very confrontational with my family members. And I went back to my GP. My GP sent me to another neurologist. This time, he ordered I MRI of the brain, the head, the neck, and the spine. When the report came back, he saw me. He said, on the basis of this report, you, 110% have multiple sclerosis. However, to be 100%, I will strongly recommend that you go and have a lumbar puncture. My first was no. And I wish I did listen to my own gut. But unfortunately, in order to get some answers, I went and had the lumbar puncture, not to mention the issues after the lumbar punch. And I waited for about two weeks, didn't get any response. And I called him. And I was actually in a doctor's surgery, and I rang him and I asked, have you received my results? And he said, oh, yeah, definitely. It's multiple sclerosis. However, I am the one that will make the decision whether you have multiple sclerosis or not. Can I say the word defeated? I don't know any other word how to describe it. I was defeated. I felt that there is nothing, no hope for me. I'm slightly confused. He got a diagnosis through some testing that showed that evidence was multiple sclerosis. But he was still wanting to make a decision as to whether it was or wasn't. What was that based on? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was. I was presenting, apparently, as a asymptomatic, in a sense that he was looking. My outward appearance, my strength or whatever. I can still walk, although I am starting to walk, really weirdly, starting to drag my life. But he still perceived that. That I am basically okay, that I'm, you know, that he will need to wait, I guess, for more symptoms, although I don't know what other symptoms. When you have a report, and on the report from the MRI, specifically says ill defined lesion on t ten. And I. And so I have lesions just out there for the viewers. I have lesions everywhere on my brain, and it's the amount of lesions, it's everywhere. I have lesions the neck, which affect seriously, I was getting a lot of burning sensation and snapping, like zapping electricity. I could not sleep, I could not sit, I could not do any. I started to move, to twitch. And then when all this on paper says that this is. He even himself said that this is multiple sclerosis, and then I go to have lumbar puncture, and that does conclude that it is multiple sclerosis. He says that it is up to him. He's not fully convinced. So I asked for all the results, all the papers that I had from him to be emailed to me. And I take it upon myself for a third opinion at this stage, and I take myself to another neurologist and I ring them up. I have pure chance or luck, or whatever you want to call that. I ring up the multiple, the multiple sclerosis clinic, chemist clinic in Camperdown. And upon speaking to the lady that answered the phone, I must have sounded very desperate. And I explained my situation and she said, jana, we only see people that are diagnosed formally with multiple sclerosis, so therefore we can. I can make you an appointment. I said, would that be okay if I can email you? It's just a click of a button. All the files, all the tests that I have done, the mris and the lumbar puncture. Less than ten minutes, that lady rang me and she said, you've got an appointment in ten days. I went, I saw the neurologist and the chief neurologist, and then they have, like, another one there. And the neurologist said to me, I need you to calm down, because obviously I was very stressed beyond any hope. And he looked at me and he said, I need you to take a deep breath, calm down, and I will just say this to you. There is no doubt that you have multiple sclerosis. There is no doubt in our mind. And he said, we need to find out, is it remitting, relapsing? Is it a secondary, primary, secondary? Where are we with you? We don't know anything. And he said, also, jnana, there was no need for you to have a lumbar puncture to diagnose the illness. Okay. Did the lumbar puncture cause you any ongoing issues? Of course, yeah, of course. And I think that will echo with many of us that have had a lumbar puncture. Okay. What was the primary issue that it caused? First of all, it was the pain. The unbelievable pain in the lower back. Yes. After that. So I had to be limited with the walking. It took me about good year. One year. One year. One year. It took me one year to kind of, because I had balance issues. I had numbness on my left leg, down my left leg, and numbness my right hand. I started using very quickly a walking stick, my walking ability. Till this day, even with a walking stick, it's about 15 minutes. Yeah. And were you given medications at that point? At that point? Right away, a lot of additional tests were done, and they put me through. Put me on. I'm sorry. I'm just gonna say galenya. Helen, jump in, and you can. The name. What is the name of the finger? Yeah, it's. It's Galenia, and it's a sphingousine l phosphate finger lemoid. It's. It modulates the receptors and dampens the immune cells that attack the nervous system. She was also on pre GAbA, which is lyrica. Lyrica, yeah, 75 milligrams twice a day, and they had also twice a day, and they had also put Yana on SSRI, so selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. They were the three main medications that she walked in with, painkillers. She was taken without the lyrica. She couldn't sleep, and. Yeah, so that's what she was on. So they put me on Gilena, and from being on the gilena, two conditions that I had to do regularly is to go and have been seen by ophthalmologists, because the ophthalmologist has to make sure the blood vessel in the eyes are okay, that I don't see any black spots and so forth. And the other was that I have to have a regular blood test to keep an eye on the liver because. And also the immune system. So I have, obviously, a lower immune system, and also it's the liver. It affects the liver. So we need to keep an eye on that. So I know. What was the long term prognosis that they gave you? Did they explain to you how, in their opinion, the journey would travel with this condition? So this is something that very quickly, I actually, at this stage of my life, I found out I didn't know about this. My mother has. She had miss and was only discovered when she had a complete Ms relapse, where she goes blind for 48 hours, loses complete control over the bowel and the bladder, and it spirals and the ability to swallow, to talk and so forth. Also, after two years of that, my mum dies. But also at that same time, it was disclosed to me that on my father's side, my first cousin, after delivering her baby at the age of 30 something, she comes out of a hospital in a wheelchair. She's diagnosed with the worst miss and dies by the age of 47. So I disclosed all this to my neurologist. We discussed all these, and they, looking at my history and everything else, they said, let's have a look how galena impacts your body. Are there any new lesions? So I will go regularly every six months for an MRI, and it showed no new lesions. By this stage, I was somehow improving slowly, gradually, but my balance, my strength, my pain, the muscles rigidity, the spasticity, my gut tissue, everything else, they decide. Were you, to your knowledge, exposed to any toxins or heavy metals or particular chemicals in your family back in Yugoslavia? No. No. That was one question they also asked. No, because we lived in a city, my family, for members. However, my grandparents were in a village, and we were growing our own food, basically livestock. Everything was natural. Nothing, even the food, it was a pasture. It wasn't my grandparents. There was no need for fertilizer. The soil there was like, from vineyards to legumes to everything. Everything was natural. There was no need for fertilizers. I'm going to get on to Helen in a second. But how did you make a decision? Or what was the journey that took you to visit or decide to visit Helen? Was she the first natural practitioner you'd come across? No. What happened is, I have seen many, and they were all basically giving me the same stories, whether it's a naturopath, whether it's a dietitian. They would give me the pyramid, traditional pyramid food, what to eat, how to eat. When I became a ciliate again, nothing changed. They really said to me, just gluten free products. Okay. Then I went to start on the process of reading a bit more from, let's say, vitamins, what I should do and how you go. You try one, you try another. And then somebody mentioned Helen, a lady that we know, her mom was going through a difficult time, and she said to me, Jana, why don't you go and see Helen? I said, okay. As Helen said, at this stage, I'm really tired, I'm really exhausted, I'm very angry. I went, I sat down and I said, now, please listen. I have been through so many dietitians and naturopaths and everything. This is my history. Please talk to me. One of the most amazing things that happened at that moment is I can see Helen's face, but I can't see what she's doing on her computer, what is in front of her computer, right? She's typing something while we are talking. She's typing, she's taking notes. And then all of a sudden, she said, finished. Anything else to say? And I said, no. Now, like, it's your turn. She says, right now, this is what we're gonna do. We are going to go for this kind of probiotic. We are going to go straight away from the turmeric. We are going to put you on B vitamins, we are going to put you on magnesium. And I'm sitting there. However, this is the biggest impact. But she said, I can't put you on this because the Indis ingredient among the ingredients is a herb that you, as an MS patient, cannot take. And that was such a pivotal moment because, because I realized this person knows what she's talking about. She knows her stuff. She is not reading some like everyone else did she. She's basically listening to me. And she has the knowledge, as an individual, as a patient, what I'm allowed to take and what I'm not allowed to take, because from the MSRP, we actually are given a list of a warning of herbs that might interact with us, not only with our medication, but SMS patients like echinacea or ginger, because of the heat that the body can't control what that can do for us. And when she said that, I just, I just kind of started to breathe. Sat back in a chair, relaxed. Did not. And I just said, she came out. She said, you start taking this. Helen, what is that herb? I didn't give her. Didn't give Jana any withania or any ginkgo, which you would think they were the two main things that she would need. But the medications that she was taking, the way she presented, I thought Bacopa only would work. She was very reactive to a lot of things, things that should help her. Often had a really bad reaction with her. And there was also some research that Ashwagandha, which is within here, it's recent, can actually aggravate people's MS patient symptoms. So I decided to be as cautious as I could. Even then, she reacted to some of the things I gave her. I had to change some things. Yeah. So, um. So, Helen, when we started this conversation, the word complicated came into my introduction. Boy, I didn't realize what complicated? Mental. I just heard Yana's story. Yeah. And that wasn't all of it. That wasn't all of it, right? No. No. You were asking her about toxins, that she. Any toxins. But stress is a toxin, and yes, it is. She hasn't told you she's been through as a young child and as a young woman, the amount of burdensome stress on her in her country and the things that she had to go through. She said she's happy to talk about it. I think that was the biggest toxicity in her life growing up, and I think it had a big impact on what happened to her. Demyelinating gray matter. Okay, well, in that case, Ellen, I'm sorry you haven't had a chance to talk much, but you've aroused my curiosity. So, Yana, please, if you don't mind sharing, please. What? Okay. And maybe that toxicity will come from that. And if this helps out anyone, I'm happy to share. Growing up, we were family of four. My father was the only provider. However, at the age of 47, my father ends up in another city where my grandparents are with a massive, massive heart attack to the point where he can't climb a stair, one stair. And we lived in a unit on third floor, and because there was five floors, that building did not qualify for an elevator. So what happens, this is where our saga continues, is that we need to buy a plot of land 10 km outside of the city where we lived. And we actually had to do a provisional makeshift one room where my father can just walk in the room with my mom, stay there, and at that time as well. Why the recovery happens when my father slowly rebuilding him up. My mum ends up with tuberculosis, in hospital, infection. We can't go and see her. My father is not capable. And my sister is starting high school, or I am about to start high school. My sister is in high school. We are very young. What can we do? No income. So we rent huge parcels of land. And the only thing that my sister and I know what to do is grow tobacco, because that's what we used to do as my grandparents in the village. Yes. In order to do that, we had to follow friends and families to help us out. Now, when you are basically the tobacco, you put the seedlings and you need to do that is like, you need to get up very early in the morning to actually put the seedlings. It's in a row, very primitive, but you bend there and so forth, because the soon the sun comes up or becomes bit hot, you can't do any work. Once that is done during the summer and once that is growing, there is a certain period of time you can pick tobacco. Again, this is primitively, no machinery to pick up the leaves. So we do it by hand. You get up at 233 o'clock in the morning and you go to the field, and you pick up tobacco. Now, when we go and pick up, we have to wear long sleeves, cover our arms, and when you snap at the leaves and you put them, you kind of lay the tobacco leaves on your arm, and you hold it, and then you put it in a made out of wood kind of vessel, and you finish at about 530 in the morning. After that, as soon as the sun comes out, you can't pick the leaves off from the tobacco. Then we sit, and this is during our summer holiday. For three months, we actually put the leaves on a needle and on a long string and put them to dry in the sun during the summer and during the winter, we go back, smear the leaves out, and we sell that. And this is how my sister and I along sometimes with the help, whether it's relatives or friends or whatever, manage to look after our parents. Is this dress? Yes. Is that a huge responsibility on very young kids? Yes, it is. You feel responsible for your parents, the fear of your parents dying. You cannot have sleep. You have interrupted sleep, interrupted food intake, not a proper food intake, but nutritious. And you don't have childhood. No, I understand. Okay. That's pretty tough going. It's a big burden from a young girl. Helen. Yana walks in. She presents with an extraordinary history, an extraordinary complicated set of symptoms. You, as a practitioner, you sit down, you go through the history. How do you start? What's your thinking process about how to help Yana? At this point. I always listen, like Yana said, very carefully to anybody that comes in the clinic and try to get my head around them holistically with autoimmune conditions, they collectively sit in a separate bag to all other conditions anyway. And I, we'll assess them individually, but there are a few things that come out that are really strong, that need treatment. Their nervous system is always shot. And with Yana, she had anxiety. She was very angry, as she said, very worked up. There were things I wanted to give her, as I've said earlier, that I couldn't. So I had to figure out how to support her nervous system. And given that it was demyelinated in so many places, there were lesions. I had to figure out how to do both of those things in a safe way where I didn't aggravate her, where she was safe and felt better quite quickly. So it was quite basic. I knew in my head that it had to be basic to start with, see how she reacted, and then go from there. So in my mind, dealing with her emotional state, her supporting the tissue of the brain, but also her nervous system was really important. I needed to really get my head around her medications, which were quite, they're very heavy duty drugs that will interact with things. So I needed to, then again, be really careful what I gave to her. She had a lot of sensitivities and allergies. I had to get my head around those and prescribe in a way where I could support her. She also wasn't sleepy very much. I had to support all these things in a way where she could feel that there was hope for her. So in my head, that was the general picture. So you started with some dietary changes, and Jan had been through a number of naturopaths and nutritionalists, dietitians, and had a number of dietary changes, you know, typical gluten, lactose free type diets. What did you do that was different? So could you just talk to me as to what a typical diet prescribed for Yana might look like? Yeah. I've been to a lot of biomedical seminars for autoimmune conditions, including miss. Some really amazing doctors from overseas that are not scared to research every single aspect of all types of autoimmune conditions, including miss. They all have things that they agree on. They will have things that they don't always agree on, but what they all agree on that will aggravate any autoimmune condition is just starch generally. And the second worst thing is dairy generally, not just the lactose, but also the casein, any kind of dairy, especially from a cow. These are people from all over the world, not just one country, and they're all highly trained medical doctors and researchers. And to me, I needed to, and I haven't got time or the ability to go into, there's a lot of research on what those things do to autoimmunity, especially miss. It makes, just changing the diet makes a huge difference. So, for me, I had to get across to Yana that it wasn't a gluten free diet with some skim milk. It was actually a starch free diet with very high plant matter to bring down her inflammation. She was very inflamed. Her inflammation and all the markers were through the roof. She was inflamed physically as a person, inflamed emotionally. She needed high plant matter, very good sources of protein, and none of the other stuff. So I had to get her off all the starches, get her off all the dairy. Pretty much that was what I was looking to do. And to show her and give her the information and the research to show her that, that's what she needed to start doing. Does that include the typical starchy vegetables, like potatoes? Yeah. I don't always do it. I don't always. I'm very individual based. Some people that come in with autoimmune are allowed to have some of those, and some aren't. With Yana, she was a very, very far gone, complicated person. The way you seeing her today is not how she was when she walked in. I agree. Helen. She. She could walk. So for me, I took the harder line. It was very hard for her to do all the things that I asked her to do. So she was off everything. So what would breakfast look like, your honor? Very simple. Breakfast would be eggs, because that's what Helen said. Look, just, we need to get you on protein so that it can last you right through a bit of lunch and all that. So it will be one egg. And of course, my older vitamins and older diet that she will prescribe for me that I have to take. Then lunch, it will be salad. And again, I was on non starchy vegetables. Just very simple. We're gonna have cauliflower or broccoli or tomatoes, the mushrooms. Cabbage is very simple. So I'll have, like, a little bit of lettuce, cucumber, maybe, and a bit of protein. She always said, you need to make sure you have the protein. Protein was like fish or more eggs or. So I would have. I can have protein. And she always made it because everyone goes, it's easier. Chicken. She did say, chicken is not for you. And I said, I agree with you, but I would go for either salmon, tuna in a can, or, you know, then we will have lem, which I absolutely adore. Lem. Beef, you know, very simple, but it doesn't have to be in huge amount, but just very simple. And then for dinner, of course, I will have vegetables. Just few vegetables. And again, protein. And was this diet prescribed after the first visit? The first visit. And because I, as Helen said, I was not the person that you see me now. We needed to do drastic changes. Well, the reason I asked that question is because I have a note here saying that there was significant improvement within two weeks. Yeah, I find that amazing. I will let Helen. I'll let Helen talk about this, because she has seen me from the beginning. Right, Helen, after. After all that Jan had been through for so many years with so many doctors and therapies, you made some dietary changes, and what was the improvement over two weeks? I did give her supplements, however, with the dietary changes. So it wasn't just diet. How the change was big. She came back for her review. Her gut symptoms were better. Her energy was better. Her anxiety was so much better. She had. She smiled. Her pain was less. She said she felt lighter and she could move a bit less stiffly. She wasn't angry, and she was a lot less intense. And interestingly, she'd been trying unsuccessfully to lose weight, and she couldn't, obviously, because she was having all this starch and she'd already started to slim down her. She had hope. For the first time in a lot of years, she had hope. She said, I felt calm. She felt calm. And she said she just wanted to enjoy that calm because she hadn't felt it for so long. She didn't even know what it felt like. So she slept a little bit better. She was better, yeah. And at this point, did Helen, you or Yana, you have any feedback from your husband or other friends or loved ones? Okay, so I will connect. Go back to when I said I was very angry and I took it on my family as a parent. It was the biggest burden on my shoulders, because I could not control my anger, I could not control my ability. It was there. I could not express myself. What was happening to me after all this happened? I went back and counselling regular counseling sessions every two weeks, which I'm totally happy is still ongoing. But what I did is I went and I apologized to my children, to my son and my daughter for my behaviour. And I actually asked them, when they notice that I am into those, whether we call it a mood or, I don't know, in that Ms. Phase, can you please bring it to my attention and tell me to go to my room, my bedroom, take some time, and we'll talk later. And that has been amazing. And one more thing, that Helen is very humble person. I remember two weeks after going back for the review, she said, you do understand, jana, that you won't, there won't be any need for you to be on these supplements, you know, forever or, you know, a long period of time. The first thing I said to her, I said, don't you dare. And she said, what? I said, don't you dare take me off any of these supplements, which I refuse to display. So, yes, Helen, what sort of supplements? What were the main supplements that you put her on? So I put Yana on. She definitely needed magnesium. The phosphatidylcholine. There's research that it helps with demyelination. Yes. So I made sure she was on some form of phosphatidylcholine. She needed her liver enzymes were way out because of the MS medication, so I needed to treat that. So I put her on Liverpool herbs, B vitamins for the firing of the nervous system. I gave her turmeric, which she tolerated really well, for the inflammation, the pain, the circulation, and a probiotic. I gave her bacopa. She did need help with her cognition, and that's it. I know it seemed like a lot to her because she wasn't taking anything pretty much right nutritional. But that's why I told her that she didn't have to be on the high doses she was on, that I put her on. But she was, she had such a good change that she was happy to stay on them. And I also called for more blood tests just to see how we were going with everything, her glucose, all of that stuff. But that's what I put her on. Jana, how is your sleep progressing? Because that's such a big part of the MS dermatology. Amazing, I will have to say. So I've been on Lyrica for, you know, a longer time. Yes, it was the pain and all that, but sleep. And as soon as Helen put me on, um, calm, which was the magnesium and all that. Yeah. Oh, wow. I. I cannot put it in words from the muscles relaxing to me, me be able to fall asleep and to not remember the next day, like, my daughter will come and ask me, mom, how was your sleep previously? Master was, you know, got an hour sleep, 2 hours this time. Until this day I said, I don't remember, so I must have slept. Yeah. And I imagine that you had continued improvement under Helen's career. Oh, amazing. Yeah. And with some dietary tweaks and changes and supplement tweaks and changes as time went on. But then we had a little incident in the world which you may remember called COVID, and you had some of the vaccines, and I understand you had some significant relapses from that. Yeah. So what happened is because I'm an AMS person and because they are saying that you need to have the vaccine, and again, I have the vaccine, that when I had the vaccine, as per se, there was no symptoms or reaction on anything. But what happened is I ended up with COVID and I ended up with mild pneumonia and also my liver, it just skyrocketed. Enzymes, it attacked my liver, my itch. I could not breathe. I actually had to go on steroids for the puffer to help me out. It took me three months to recover from that. Your liver enzymes went sky high. Oh, they went sky high. I went and had a ct scan. And the lady there, she said, what is going on? I said, I had COVID. I said, right. So that wasn't pleasant at all. I did refuse the viral medication because I was a virtual patient at that stage of RPA. Yep. The doctor raised me and kindly said, I have to tell you that I can put you on the viral medication. I said, thank you very much, but I will decline. And that that was basically my choice, my decision. One of the areas which I suspect you never like ten years ago, you wouldn't have thought that you'd be getting into or doing is exercise. And I hear from Helen that you are an exerciser now. Helen, were you very involved in the process and the transition to more physical therapy as well? Yes, it was. Exercise is really important in any capacity. Yana really couldn't do. She couldn't even walk in the beginning. She didn't have the energy and she was dragging her legs. She couldn't even do her housework or go shopping. The whole family had taken over, so to get her moving was a real ordeal. But by the third consultation, which was in 2023, it was last year, in May, she had already started doing more and she went to the gym. She lost twelve and a half kilos by then and was walking a little bit. She could do things without the cane. Her stamina was quite impressive. There was still a long way to go, but she had already started doing a bit of bike. She'll tell you what she was doing. But she had already started not using the cane. She'd lost some weight, she was doing a bit more exercise. And then that got even better this year. Do you find that when clients like Yana, with these significant conditions, are moving to exercise, that you have to adapt or change your diet and or supplement regime very much, yes. I mean, you don't overhaul, change everything, but you slowly, slowly make some changes, and some of them are significant. Yana wasn't losing enough weight, and even the doctor agreed in. In May last year, the doctor wanted to put her on Oz and peak, and he wasn't happy with her insulin. He wasn't quite happy with the blood glucose. We got bloods done, we got the insulin, the HBA one c, the glucose, we got it all looked at, and I decided that she should be on herbs that regulate blood sugar to help her and help her pancreas. And so we did that, and that set her off again to the weight loss that she needed to get. And she didn't end up going on the ozone beak. She ended up losing 22 kilos. Wow, that's massive. I have to jump in. I just went to my GP yesterday. From 112 kilos back on the 5 November 2022 to yesterday, I have. Now I'm down to 88. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. And good idea, Zempig. And I am grateful to the endocrinologist for listening to me, because I refuse metformin and I refuse ozempic. However, he knew that I would be able to achieve, because he knew what Helen and I have done. Yeah. And he said with this, yes, you can. But I would not have been able to achieve this weight loss unless I change the eating habits, the diet, whatever it is, and also with all the supplements that Helen put me on to give me the energy to lessen the pain, to be able to walk more, to be able to slowly exercise. Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. Helen, did you have much communication with a neurologist throughout this process? No, Daniel. They were so happy for Janet to take charge of her own journey and do all the things she was doing, and they were amazed, but none of them thought to contact me or ask me what I was doing. Okay. So. Well, actually, they are very well informed by me of what I'm doing and that I, how close I work with Helen and the supplements that I am on. And I had my, in March, I had my appointment, first appointment for this year. My strength, my balance, my walking, they were so happy with. And they just keep saying, keep doing what you're doing. That's what they said. But I do share my story with them, and they pass it on to my Ms nurse as well. And I'm really, really, really happy that if you do need any, you know, or there is that I can pass this info and contribute to that. I'm very happy with that. But they very well aware of what I'm doing with Helen or anyone else. One of the successes we have with everything we do in life is finding the right team, putting the right people. Around you, and adjusting. Adjusting. I had to put Yana on Buckthorn instead of normal fish oil, which officials are indicated, because she reacted to that and just adjusting everything that you need to adjust. Having to take her off chlorophyll because she reacted to that and finding something else to give her. So constantly changing and adjusting, and even her exercise regime. She came in in February, and she'd been doing, she started weights, she goes on the exercise bike, but she needed. I showed her how to do some other things. I mean, I've done, yeah, I've done sports. The sports degree at uni. So I could just. The proper stretches to do the. The opposing muscle groups to work with the weights. She uses weights on her arms and legs now, strengthening her core. I demonstrated to her how to do her core exercises. I told her to take it up with her trainer. She's got a trainer now. And put the program together for the trainer to make her even stronger than she is now. So there's a lot more that she will be able to do. You know, she's not at the end of it now, and she's at the age she is normally there in wheelchairs. She's getting better and better every day. That's. And that's the beautiful thing about this story, just for other people to listen to also. Jana, what's your life like now? What are you doing? You've got a second chance of life. How are you living it? It's amazing. I have, which I'm very proud. I have an amazing relationship now with my children. It's not angry and, you know, snappy at my children. We have set up our business with my husband. I'm looking forward to that adventure. It will be an educational service, providing for anyone out there. That's my passion. And I feel. I feel now I'm able to contribute. Before that, I wasn't contributing. Yes, I felt I was a burden. And there's nothing worse when you feel that you're a burden upon someone. So that's where all the anxiety, the depression, and everything else stands out. But I have to say to anyone out there, listening, attitude is very important. When I was diagnosed formally with MS, I was so happy. I am blessed to be diagnosed with Ms. I don't see this as negative. I see it as positive. Gives me the option to change, gives me the options to work with amazing people. Group of people. Yes. You continually knock on doors, but don't let medical practitioners or whatever put you down. Keep on knocking. Somebody will open the door, somebody will listen to you, somebody will hear you out, and somebody will say, okay, let's work together. So your attitude is very important. Arm yourself with knowledge, because knowledge will empower you to look after. You're the best advocate for yourself. You will find exercise, do as much or as little as you can. It doesn't matter. Keep your muscles working. And please, for all of us out there, you know, that have issues with our, uh, brains and so forth, please play games, because those games will keep your mind, and you'll find motor skills working, you know, solve puzzles. So be gentle, be kind to yourself. But I now feel I am again, an independent person. I can do within the power to do so. I can cook, I can clean, I can contribute towards my enjoy the family. With the time with my family, I can actually go out. Yeah. Beautiful. And Helen, thank you once again for your, you know, we've spoken many times over the last few years, but thank you for your presence and your intelligence and your sense of caring. It makes such a big difference to people's lives. On that note, I want to thank you both. What a great story. Ms. Does not have to be a sentence. It doesn't have to mean that you're on a down decline. And when you work with the right people and the right team, we can adjust and make such a difference. It's just wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you. Over and out. Take care. If you feel that this story could be a better benefit to you or someone you know, please like it and share it. If you have a health story yourself and feel that sharing it might make a difference to another person, please head over to our website, apatientstory.com. We would love to hear from you. And as a reminder, in this podcast and on our website, the information provided relates to the specific health requirements of an individual and may not rely relate on to your health circumstances or that of another person. Please do not make any changes to your treatment without consulting your health professional. Thank you.