Can you imagine being so sick from mould that you slip into a coma for 3 years? That is what happened to Amie Skiltons patient. With 50% of Australian homes being potential 'mould bombs' this is a topic that must be taken seriously. Allergies, asthma, eczema and even cancer can have an association with mould. This story will really make you think about your residential and working environments and how it can impact you and your family.
Can you imagine being so sick from mould that you slip into a coma for 3 years? That is what happened to Amie Skiltons patient. With 50% of Australian homes being potential 'mould bombs' this is a topic that must be taken seriously. Allergies, asthma, eczema and even cancer can have an association with mould. This story will really make you think about your residential and working environments and how it can impact you and your family.
Amie Skilton, you will be regarded as the mould queen. Although I don't think that's a very nice name. But it gives people an idea of your experience. How are you?
Amie Skilton:Oh, well, thank you. Look, it's a look, it's a term that I have very reluctantly allowed to be applied. I don't know what else do you call me? I mean, there's no, there's no attractive way of saying that you specialize in this area. So mould Queen it is?
Daniel Baden:Okay. All right. I'll just call you, Amie. If that's alright.
Amie Skilton:That's fine. Or, Your Highness will do?
Daniel Baden:Oh, your highness. I'm really interested. It's an interesting area, mould is affecting about 50% I understand of all houses in Australia, from one of the government websites I looked at that will impact about 25% of people. And I'm just wondering how you personally became interested in this area?
Amie Skilton:Hmm. Yeah. Well, that's really why I ended up focusing this is one of my areas of focus. It's not because I picked it or it was particularly lucrative, in fact, it's really not. And it's certainly not that much fun. But ultimately, as often is the case with practitioners, when something happens to us, with the knowledge and background that we have, we have the capacity to deep dive in it was very triggering. So there's a whole sort of trauma piece that goes along with having this experience. And to be honest, if I could have left it behind with a clear conscience, I probably never would have worked in this area at all. But unfortunately, even in the naturopathic curriculum, environmentally acquired illnesses are for the most part absent or not particularly well taught. And
Daniel Baden:It's always an interesting area for me, genetics, and whether it's actual genetic mutation, or whether it's an epigenetic problem, meaning that certain genes are activated, potentially due to other areas, for example, chronic inflammation, or dietary allergies, or gut dysbiosis, or other toxins, environmental toxins. So you mentioned genes a couple of times, but do you think it's
Amie Skilton:Yes, and no. So certainly, the overall body burden does impact your ability to withstand environmental toxins, for sure. Yeah, certainly, for me personally. And also professionally, I have seen where additional body burdens lower your cellular detoxification processes and ability to heal. However, what we understand the mold genetics to be informing it. So it's, it's a, it's a
Daniel Baden:Okay, that's really interesting. Thank you. You're gonna present to us today, a patient that you saw a young lady in her 20s. And I'd be interested if you would just start talking about that case, please.
Amie Skilton:Yes. So this is absolutely the most complex case I have seen in my 20 plus years of seeing clients. And I think it's going to be very hard to top as well, because this beautiful girl just has experienced some of the and endured some of the most extreme effects of what we can refer to as CIRS. I just mentioned earlier that CIRS can be triggered by other things. And because it actually have to treat the mold part first, before you can treat the Lyme part. And so for her, like, wherever, you know, that was sort of acquired along the way, it's unclear as to where she was exposed to beryllium and the other stealth infections that she developed, but somewhere between childhood and 15, but certainly with the leak that was from around the age of five. So in an extended
Daniel Baden:So you mentioned that it's important to treat the mould before you treat the lymes. Why is that? And is that the case for other chronic inflammatory conditions as well? Or immune disruptive conditions?
Amie Skilton:Yeah, look, there's there's the textbook way of doing things, and then there's reality of doing things. And the textbook way of doing things, according to the Schumaker protocol is to move through the steps until you correct an inflammatory marker called C four A. And that's the inflammatory marker we know to be triggered by mould. And then you address C three a after that, which often what we see in mold exposure is immunosuppression, you know, over an extended period of time a loss of white cell count. And so you end up with a disabled immune system from from an infection point of view, and then trying to get on top of the infections that are behind Lyme symptoms just becomes an arduous task.
Daniel Baden:It's known that there are many different types or species of molds that infect houses, Aspergillus Penicillium Cladosporium as examples, and I know that there are others, but do you feel that they would affect the inflammatory markers like C four array or C three a more or in different ways? Or do they all kind of hit the body in a similar fashion?
Amie Skilton:That's a great question. So essentially, those inflammatory markers with C with service will only be triggered and people, part 95% of those people who have elevated levels have got a vulnerable haplotype. Certainly, if someone lives in toxic mold for long enough, that will eventually be the case for them. But the inflammatory markers are not species specific. So we can't sort of
Daniel Baden:Yeah, this is so interesting, and we could digress away from the patient all day. Let's get back to her. Yeah, she was a young child, she was diagnosed with limes, she she had mold in the bathroom cavity or the wall of the bathroom cavity, which is behind her bed head. So she was immersed in a moldy environment every night when she was sleeping. So what was next? What happened?
Amie Skilton:Gosh, I mean, that would probably need a whole episode if we would go through what happened I suppose in summary, to give you a bit of a an overview, she Doctor hopped for a long time, you know, when you have someone who's this unwell and has conditions that are just really tricky to identify. And she her parents even moved to Mexico for a period I know, desperate, absolutely
Daniel Baden:how old was she then?
Amie Skilton:that was in her late teens, early 20s. You know, there's a lot that happens with mould exposure, and I know we're going to go into those details again, but I just want to mention this now. She mycotoxins are having an antibiotic effect on the gut. We know penicillins From Penicillium mycotoxins, or mold is competing for bacteria in water damaged buildings, so they produce chemicals When I say she's so sensitive, that's actually probably not the right way to frame it. She had been poisoned by the micro organisms of that home over an extended period of time, such that she couldn't tolerate even the tiniest exposure. And so she lived completely separately in a tent, she had to revert, she had to shower and reverse osmosis water, she had to cook and clean in her own pans outside.
Daniel Baden:What sort of environmental challenges this do you mean, the physical challenges that you faced living in a house? Or do you mean other, like, car pollution or noise, these sorts of things
Amie Skilton:that have everything really, where she was located, there was mining. So there was industrial pollution? Yeah, so environmentally, there was a lot going on, geographically, there was EMFs, locally that she couldn't control. There was industrial pollution, not so much vehicle emissions, she was in sort of quiet a quiet suburb. But what she had already identified was that if she
Daniel Baden:EMF stands for electromagnetic frequencies. And in a modern world, where you've got cell phones, you've got Wi Fi, everywhere, every supermarket, every house is emitting some sort of Wi Fi technology. Every car is every modern car. So how do you in a modern worlds help someone stay away from this swamp of frequencies?
Amie Skilton:Yeah,that is a challenge. In and of itself. The big thing is the duration of exposure and your proximity to the source. And so even though it's everywhere, the primary bulk of people's exposure comes from inside their homes from their Wi Fi modem, or their cell phone or their wireless headphones, for example. So she had no wireless technology, like with her phone and her iPad, you with my clients as people sleep with their cell phones, not on flight mode. I mean, that's just a recipe for glioblastoma. So we can worry about what's out there. But the biggest issue is what we're doing inside our homes. So fortunately, in her case, researched Airbnbs. And hotels, hotels weren't a great option, because you can't turn the Wi Fi off into individual rooms. But Airbnb s were a
Daniel Baden:the logistics behind all of this is unbelievable, it was the sort of thing that you find yourself getting immersed in with mold patients on a regular basis.
Amie Skilton:Yeah, I do. So there are a number of secondary consequences or secondary conditions that can develop from someone with SIRs or mould illness in particular. And that is multiple chemical sensitivity, mast cell activation syndrome, pots, and then EMF sensitivity. And so managing those is certainly part of you know what I do, but I suppose just to back it up a little bit after my
Daniel Baden:But when you say building biology, is that what I call sick building syndrome?
Amie Skilton:Kind of, yeah,
Daniel Baden:I remember going to a conference on sick building syndrome 30 years ago, and it was mind blowing to see how much mold was an air conditioning ducts and big buildings in the city and, and how to save money, they would close off external air coming in, because it was cheaper to recycle existing air. And then I think some policies came in that that allow a minimum of 10% external air and
Amie Skilton:Yeah that definitely falls under the category of building biology. Ultimately, it's a larger umbrella term about the study of health hazards in the built environment, meaning our homes and our offices, everything that we've built. And it includes the building materials that we are using, so glues, paints, you know heavy metals, it includes the chemicals and our water, other things
Daniel Baden:so mould can be the substrate that affects a whole lot of change in bacterial culture, is that a way of saying it?
Amie Skilton:I guess the way I would put it is where there is water there is life. And in nature, mold is a natural decomposer it is nature's way of recycling materials that are you know, had their best buy. But in a home where we've we've basically made our walls out of paper and glue. As soon as they get damp. All kinds of microorganisms begin to grow to break it down. And so It's a really a
Daniel Baden:So just coming back to your patient, she was living in a tent, and she was looking for somewhere else to live. What was the next step in her transition? And how do you start with a case like this, there's so much going on. And as you mentioned, some time ago, chronic mold, and together with limes, particularly will cause a significant disruption to the gut microbiome, which has its
Amie Skilton:So you've got to, I guess, triage or prioritize the big rocks, if you like, over the small ones. And, you know, when we're looking at root causes, removing those or managing those or addressing those has always got to be right up the top. And in the case of someone who was being made unwell by mould, getting them into an environment, which is not that not that you've got a mold anything that's we're in the southern hemisphere, if you're listening to this from the northern hemisphere, so in our neck of the woods, a south facing home is a problem because it's not getting enough sunlight, it would be the reverse if you were in the north, so avoiding all south facing Airbnbs, avoiding all potential rental properties that are in a valley or low lying or on a steep slope. of course, by triggering gallbladder contractions, but also glutathione production was a way of boosting her detox enzymes without actually giving her either glutathione precursors or glutathione itself. And so little things like dry skin brushing and saunas, and gentle things like that were kind of the ground floor where she started.
Daniel Baden:So for the listeners, glutathione is a naturally produced antioxidant in your body. And usually, when you have any sort of chronic inflammatory process going on, your levels of glutathione, continue to diminish. So finding a way to naturally boost your glutathione can help with the side effects and sequelae of of inflammation. So that's really important for her. A lot of
Amie Skilton:Yeah, well, certainly, there are different degrees of mold growth. And it also depends on what it's growing on as to how you would address it. So first of all, ditch the bleach it's toxic, and when it combines with mold becomes even more toxic. And that's assuming you're using it on non porous surfaces only. So things like shower tiles, for instance, I mean, at least change to has a leak, and you notice a water stain on the ceiling. Let's say you know, it's currently just freshly started leaking. If you can plug the leak and get the ceiling plasterboard and the insulation, bone dry in 48 hours. That's all you have to do. And you would use a dehumidifier and blowers and heaters to do that. The issue is, you know, from 48 hours onwards, you've got all kinds of microbial even for just a couple of days can start to see your home, get a bit moldy, your books, you know, clothes, things like that.
Daniel Baden:So I know that we keep moving away from your patient and
Amie Skilton:its all part of the story
Daniel Baden:its all part of part of the story, , so many people have asthma, eczema, some sort of dermatitis. Even just feeling tired for no known reason can be an allergy symptom, dark circles under the eyes, sneezing. And if anybody's presenting with these sorts of symptoms, should they be looking for mold as part of the clue?
Amie Skilton:They absolutely should. So statistically, what we know at the moment is that at least 60% of people with atopic conditions like asthma, eczema, hay fever, you know, all those kinds of allergy things are sensitive to mold. And so you know, if you've got a chronic issue, one of the red flags for a moldy home is someone who's got hay fever symptoms year round. So you're always taking moisture out of the clothes and dry them quicker. But of course stop the making your home damn cooking steam, things like that can also make your home damp. So you know venting that to the outside or using your dehumidifier is also really important. And of course if you work out inside your home, like maybe you've got a treadmill in your lounge Be mindful that you know the sweat and breathing
Daniel Baden:Fascinating. Coming back to your patient. You struggle to I guess if you're not able to use your normal toolbox of nutritional supplements or medicines, other tools you may use and you're working a lot with logistics at this point. It's I imagined a very long, slow process to wards healing for a person. So what I know this person was eating very well and and found a way to avoid
Amie Skilton:I had a lot, and I guess I'll widen the scope here, simply because she was so sensitive to supplements, but for most people, you can employ tools straight away. For me, you know, when I'm dealing with someone with mold, there's a few categories. So number one using what we call binders. And what that means is we eliminate toxins through a number of avenues out of our body, but like just incredible amounts of inflammation. So anything that you can do to lower inflammation is fair game. Now, we know high dose fish oil actually has a really measurable result on some of the biomarkers for mold patients. But of course, you know, water soluble Tumeric maybe for them the best they can do as fresh ginger tea, or eating deep sea, cold water, fish. Anything that's anti function and actually do the things they need to do to get themselves out of the situation. So
Daniel Baden:typically, a lot of the mitochondrial support would have included things like coenzyme, q 10, and zinc and other nutrients but and if the person is so sensitive to supplements, how do you it's tricky.
Amie Skilton:It is tricky. There were some combinations that I really liked, but I have another client at the moment Who's really sensitive and we are just introducing things one at a time. And because he tried the combo, and it didn't go well, but he is currently on an active form of cokie tin called Ubiquinol, and introduced carnitine recently, and that's doing really well, also. So you
Daniel Baden:moving along with this client. What was the next step? How did she progress when you started to implement some of these changes.
Amie Skilton:So the first key was getting her to a good environment, which took a lot of work, she she made it into stage, she actually went to Tasmania and because the air quality down there is generally very good, but she needed to be near a major city so she could have organic food delivered. So yeah, and unfortunately you know, there was a few Airbnbs that had water damage and in spite of improve her level of well being. It's obviously rapidly rising her energy, like, you know, her fatigue started to drop away and she could actually go for walks without having a crash. It was honestly what like watching Rocky Balboa bike go through just round after round after round and then fine. Just come out on top, but it was honestly her resilience was or inspiring. Because for many people,
Daniel Baden:but what sort of journey what sort of timeframe are we talking about? Well look, from coma to, to going for a walk.
Amie Skilton:Yeah, look, she was around exposed to mold around six or seven. And so she began to become unwell at that age, and she left that family home for a short period of time came back was still really Sick went to Mexico came back. This is because they didn't realize the home was actually a big contributing factor here, and then fell into a coma came to see me at 27. And then yeah, by
Daniel Baden:Yeah, and I guess for a lot of people, it's just unaffordable, you can't easily just pick up your home or knock it down and start again or whatever, you're kind of just having to deal with it as best you can. That's really challenging.
Amie Skilton:It is probably the most heartbreaking piece actually, no, the most heartbreaking piece of, of dealing with something like this is because not everyone has mold susceptible genes. In any given family, there's going to probably be one adult, that's fine. And the other adult may be a child. That's not and I see a lot of families crumble, because the person who's well can't seem to
Daniel Baden:Yeah. And probably recognition of the extent of the symptoms is not approved by governments and councils and that sort of thing.
Amie Skilton:Yeah, look, there was a parliamentary inquiry back in 2018. And they did really not much for a number of years, but they have donated over a million dollars to Macquarie University to study this sort of divided between Sydney and Brisbane. So I think look, I think in 10, no, maybe not 10, maybe 2015 to 20 years. Everyone's going to know what this is and know what to do. And we're
Daniel Baden:And so fast forwarding on this case that you saw the patient couple of years ago, I used to learn contact and how is she going to did improvement continue? Yes,
Amie Skilton:so she has continued to improve. Certainly whenever she's re exposed to mold, she will have a relapse of sorts, but because her foundation which is the place in which she resides now is supportive to her healing, she can now navigate that without, I don't want to say too much trouble because it impacts your life forever, I can't go and stay in any hotel or go to any restaurant or
Daniel Baden:I may have lied to you, because I've kept you so much longer than I promised I would. But a couple of things. I'm wondering if obviously, the best thing people can do if they're affected by chronic allergies or significant moles condition is to see a practitioner and someone like you, but just for people to educate themselves. And I'm sorry, I'm throwing in the deep end here. Is there
Amie Skilton:Yeah, absolutely. So there is an incredible Facebook group, if you are on Facebook, called toxic mold support Australia, I think there's close to 14,000 people in there. And I'm often in there offering free advice when I have, you know, the time and the energy. And the gentlemen who actually run that group have created the most incredible website of resources that's easy to navigate,
Daniel Baden:the proper way we would say
Amie Skilton:the proper way the Yeah, we won't get into that argument. But look that has got some incredible pages, there's a link there with a science primer. So if anyone's dealing with, say a family member, or even a physician who's like, I don't believe you this sounds like a load of nonsense. There's a single link where everything has been summarized and as fully referenced that you can
Daniel Baden:Amazing. And Amy, Are you still seeing people? And if so how can people get in touch with you?
Amie Skilton:Yes, I do. I didn't for a while there. I may have mentioned that on air. I may have said that to you. I found the first couple of years after coming out of it incredibly traumatic, because it was such a traumatic experience. But yes, I have been seeing mould clients now for over three years. And if you would like to reach out to me, my website is whatthenaturopathsaid.com And
Daniel Baden:whatthenaturopathsaid.com Okay, excellent. Well, my dear mold coin Keep all your time. You have just been amazing. I've learned so much. And I really hope that people have got a better understanding of what may be causing some of these chronic illnesses which can I know the scope of irritation from mold can be from just a constant hay fever to comer is the worst, indeed. And that's
Amie Skilton:Thank you, Daniel was great chatting with you.
Daniel Baden:Okay, well, you take care and stay dry. See ya bye.